S4E11 - Fat Dish: Being Okay, Media Moments, + Fat Taxation
Season 4, Episode 11:
Fat Dish: Being Okay, Media Moments, + Fat Taxation
Released September 1st, 2021. For complete episode info, visit this page!
[THEME MUSIC FADES IN AND OUT]
Cat Polivoda: Welcome to Matter of Fat, a body positive podcast with Midwest sensibilities.
Hi, I'm Cat Polivoda, a local fat feminist, shop owner, and I'm celebrating one of the first nights of open windows weather that took place last night! Uh, I'm joined by my co-host and producer Saraya Boghani.
Saraya Boghani: Hi, I'm Saraya. I'm a fat, multiracial Minneapolitan millennial, who saw one singular leaf fall. So I am declaring that autumn has officially arrived.
CP: (Laughs) On Matter of Fat, we're here to talk about the cultural politics of fat liberation with a Midwest perspective.
SB: I assume y’all already know the drill, but you know what they say, so just in case you don't know,: this is a Fat Dish episode where we dish and we're fat, so we talk about personal updates and it's all just inherently through that fat liberation lens. Um, pretty neat!
CP: Yes, very neat. And just so you know, we'll have another full episode next time, of course, full of dirt and discourse and an interesting interview, ready for you in two weeks. Uh, until then let's get into all of this as --
CP + SB: —A Matter of Fat!
[THEME MUSIC FADES IN AND OUT]
SB: All right, let's start it off with just some personal updates. And I think one that's a personal and shared update is a delightful little circumstance that happened recently, which involved us and our Matter of Fat assistants going out to our first in-person like, meeting/dinner/moment. And it was everything!
CP: And it was so great. So our assistant Lindsay was the coordinator of it all. Lindsay, you know, reached out to everyone, figured out where to go and when to go and all of that, which was a true delight for us, Saraya and I did not have to like, be the logistics of it all. Um, so shout out to Lindsay for managing all of that. And then yeah, we went to Barbette in Uptown and it was just this lovely outdoor dining moment, and the first time the five of us have been together ever in real life.
SB: Yeah. I actually haven't met two of our assistants IRL before, so that was amazing. And I'd worked with, you know, Lindsay for over two years, I guess we could say right now. So it was just, it was surreal. I'm still having those moments with people when I get together and be like, “Is this real life? Are we all just sitting here having a wine, having a charcuterie board, like, is this all happening?” And it was, and it was so delightful. It was really fun to just check in with everybody, because we do team meetings kind of consistently, um, but this just felt so much more. I don't have a good word for it, but, uh, I think that was just a really lovely moment, um, of connectivity, especially when I feel like, uh, I don't know. I might have to pump the brakes on that coming up soon with just the way those numbers, those COVID numbers are going. So—
CP: That's the truth, but goodness, it was just such a true treat to be with everyone in real life, instead of like, on our Zoom screens. Um, and also like the weather was good, the food was nice. The, the ambience was lovely. It was just like a really good evening.
SB: So what a natural way for us to kick this off with just a nice pleasant moment. I hope y'all are having nice pleasant moments with people in your life. Um, love, love to see it. Love to have it. Um, but I'm wondering, okay, so that was, do we have any other mutual updates?
CP: Mutual updates?
SB: I don't think so.
CP: I did, we got together once didn't we? (Saraya laughs) Right?
SB: That's where we're at, “Didn’t we?:
CP: Yes we did! I came over with snacks and we talked to, oh, we did, we did a little--
SB: Oh my gosh, yes!
CP: So previously, I mean, before the pandemic, Saraya and I would always meet in person whenever we were writing, or of course when we were recording, you know, but now we do all of it virtually. Um, so even for us, it's kind of a treat when we get together in real life to, to work on stuff. And I think we were meeting to like, brainstorm some things and get some writing done. Um, and that was really nice!
SB: It was . Also Cat is like, if y'all don't know this already, like, snack game is on point.
CP: I’m a Taurus. (Saraya laughs) Hello?
SB: I just, sure, sure. But it was—I can't believe my memory is so bad at this point that I didn't even remember, like I had an inkling, but I couldn't actually like, conceive of what we did—but it was so nice. We hung out on the rooftop of my building and just wrote and brainstormed and schemed a little bit. And it was really lovely. So yeah.
CP: Yeah, that was nice. It was nice to see you in real life again. Gosh we're so—and then actually, Lindsay came into the shop with her mom recently.
SB: (gasps) Cute, cute.
CP: The same, the same week as we did the thing. So I was like, “Oh my god, Lindsay, I got to see you twice in a week!” I think it was the same—I just like, you know, in quick succession, I got to see her twice. So yeah, it's been, oh, it's just always such a, such a delight to, to see folks in real life and have like, work time or hang time in real life when it's so often virtual.
SB: Yeah, I'm glad you brought up the shop. I think you should give us some updates on the shop.
CP: Oh yeah. Thanks for asking. There's a lot of updates to be shared. Um, I guess the first thing is that I hired new staff members! So we hired three new people and they're all so cool and so great. And just, man, I'm so excited to work with all of them. And I should also say, like, we had a really excellent people apply too, there were so many just, just as lovely folks who we weren't able to extend offers to who were, who were fantastic too. So that whole process was, you know, any kind of hiring process is a lot to manage, so it was like a bit of work. Um, so it's really nice for that to be, to be kind of completed and for us to have these three super cool folks who are joining the team with Paxyshia and I.
SB: That's awesome. Oh, so exciting.
CP: So exciting! And the reason, or like the push for me to really get the team back to, uh, you know, not just a duo is that we're going to be open more starting in September. So my shop, Cake Plus-Size Resale, um, is going to be back—well, actually we had only ever been open five days a week, but starting in September, starting September 1st, we'll be open six days a week. Um, which feels really like, good and exciting. And um, like, uh, I don't know, a sign that we're getting back to kind of the pace we were at before. And, you know, it's always so interesting when like, you make decisions like that. They're called like, projections, I guess, like, “Okay. So like how much are we going to—how much more money are we going to make, that'll allow me to like, hire these people, if we’re open this many days and blah, blah, you know, all of those things.
And with that always comes a bit of like, nervousness on my part. Like, you know, “Okay, here's what I think is gonna happen, but what's really gonna happen?” Though, I will say I had this sort of like, “Aha!” the other day when I was kind of going over a bunch of this stuff in my mind, you know. There have been several times throughout the last four years that I've had to—and actually before that, cause you know, I've been selling clothes online for, for what feels like forever, like seven or eight years. You know, for me, I've had to make a lot of these projections, like educated guesses about what will work before, and I'm usually right. So I'm carrying that energy into this. Um, and yeah, I think it'll be good. So mostly, almost exclusive excitement and a little bit of like, “Oh, let's see what happens.” Um, also too, like, will people feel like shopping six days a week in a store in the fall in this United States of America with the Delta variant doing its thing? You know, like there are those kinds of things out of my control too. So being thoughtful about that, but also really hopeful, um, and excited for what's to come this fall.
SB: Yeah. I mean, the projections of it all, I was just thinking of crystal ball would be really nice about this time.
CP: Wouldn’t that be nice? (Laughs)
SB: Also, I'm just excited to hear your like forward momentum for you. Because that's like very much who you are as a person, and I know the pandemic has halted a lot of that. So regardless of where it goes, it's fun to see this moment and like, see the Cake family grow a little bit too.
CP: Oh yeah. It's so nice to see our, our team get bigger. Um, and I, you know, like my goal is that it will just get bigger and bigger and bigger and bigger, and we'll have more and more and more locations, and more and more and more happening. And I think that that can be a reality. It's just like, we're just saying, it's just like, there's a lot of unknown specifically right now in this moment in our lives.
SB: Yeah. Well, I gotta say that I am a huge fan of work teams, and I say that as like a slight segue that I have been spending way more time with some of my coworkers, like outside of work, even.
CP: Fun!
SB: Yeah! Like, work friends! I actually really like the people I work with and it's been so fun to hang out with them outside of work and just like, catch up on life stuff. And I forgot that that was a thing that I used to do before the pandemic. But, um, now it's even like, more meaningful, like people that I haven't truly seen in person, in over a year and just like, getting to meet their partners, and getting to know more about their lives. And it's just like, really delightful. So, I am here. I mean, you know, I love a good friendship in media, in our relationship—
CP: —Like in literally every way, we're here for the friendship moment—
SB: —So workplace friendship? Very into it. But I just gotta say like, uh, it's so nice to be able to just connect and like, want to keep connecting and treasuring those relationships and those moments before. Because I think previously, happy hours would happen all the time and they just felt like, kind of like fun, but also one more thing to have to do, one more thing to have to fit in. And now it's just like, oh, I'm elated to spend time with you because it's so few and far between and like more carefully organized, ‘cause we want it to be safe, we want it to be comfortable for everyone. So just very into that lately, but um, yeah. I don't know. I thought it was a perfect segue from what you were talking about.
CP: Oh my gosh, it was absolutely perfect! I love that. That's so, that's so sweet. And, you know, Saraya, so you kind of alluded to this in your intro, I think. And I, um, mentioned it with the shop stuff, but like pandemic life, feels like things might be—or not your intro, you mentioned this when you talked about, we talked about our gathering, um, with our team. I don't know, it feels like things are maybe making another turn. And so like, I'm wondering how you're feeling about all of that and like how, we've talked a bit about this, but like how you making it through?
SB: Oh, my goodness. I asked somebody else that the other day, and they’re like, “I don’t know. “ And like, fair, ok, and also something I have been thinking a lot about. Because even if it isn't the pandemic piece, like winter is coming—
CP: —Oh, my gosh—
SB:. —Like not in just the Game of Thrones way. It feels more real than ever before where it's like, yeah, it’s gonna be hard!
CP: I didn’t even, oh wow. Saraya—
SB: Yeah. I declared it fall—
CP: —You declared it fall, and whereas I'm looking forward for fall. I honestly, until you just mentioned that, I hadn't really thought about like, “Oh, it's gonna be snowing in a couple months. Oh—”
SB: I know. I am, I am a Capricorn. So I must bring up the reality of it all, but also preparing for it. So like, your question has been very much on my mind in anticipation for how hard, like, last winter felt for me. So I am doubling down on like, being okay, in any way, shape or form possible. And what that has looked like—granted, it looks like something different for everybody—really, very much into therapy. I know I've mentioned that before and I feel like almost every podcast host recommends therapy, at least the podcasts I listen to, but it's just, um, so good, so helpful to work through some things.
Um, also I actually got prescribed some, uh, depression meds, so like that's super helpful, anti-anxiety meds. So, exploring with that, which sounds kind of more salacious than it is, but, um, just like, wow, life is already pretty hard and it'll always be challenging and have its moments, but why have it be harder than it needs to, and like trying to advocate for myself and figure out how to alleviate some of those things. I gotta say, sleep, uh, I've been trying to sleep more, get some good sleep hygiene, which like, has never been a good thing for me. Um, but lately it has! Last night, it wasn't. And I will tell you why—
CP: —An illusion to like what I imagine we'll talk about later. But I was going to say, now that you've finished Criminal Minds, I bet it's easier for you to get to sleep on time. (Laughs)
SB: Oh my gosh, I held off on Criminal Minds for so long that that wasn't even an issue, I was watching other things too, but now it’s over!
CP: Got it, got it.
SB: It’s over, it’s completed. Oh my god. It's, that's a problem. Um, but okay. Another thing that I've just been loving—but like maybe has to end eventually—is that you actually gave me a gift certificate for a massage a couple years ago.
CP: Oh yeah, from Julie!
SB: From Julie. And I finally got to cash it in, and now I have like a monthly massage with Julie and it's just like, the best thing ever.
CP: She’s incredible.
SB: She is amazing, I don't know how she does it. I mean, she’s got a lot of experience so that’s probably how she does it.
CP: She’s been doing it for like 30 years, so she's just like a real pro. Oh my gosh. She's just, yeah, incredible.
SB: Um, I don't know if anybody else thinks about this when they're working with anybody—It could be like a chiropractor, massage therapist, a doctor—but I'm like, could this person just like, incapacitate me because they know exactly how the human body—(starts laughing)
CP: Oh my God, Saraya! I mean, I'm sure they could. And also I've never thought that one time, not once!
SB: Really? You've watched all of Criminal Minds and you haven't thought that once? Like, I think I'm the more normal one in this instance.
CP: I mean, if Criminal Minds has taught me anything, it's that like fat people don't get kidnapped or tortured. So—
SB: They are the aggressors, only and exclusively.
CP: Exclusively. I'm saying this in this in silliness. I know that's not actually true. Um, but if we were to make conclusions based on that show, and that show alone, it would be only, only thin people who ever have anyone attack them ever.
SB: Hmm, some food for thought my dude, some food for thought. I guess.
CP: Sorry that I keep bringing this up. I'm so like, I'm just listening to myself.
SB: You love Criminal Minds.
CP: It’s like, all I'm talking about, oh, I'm so sorry. Okay. Massages.
SB: You’re still in deep! It's got you in its clutches.
CP: It’s gripping me still!
SB: You’ve gotta shake it off.. You have got to let it go.
CP: Okay. I need to, especially for the purpose of this podcast, I need to not bring this up as much.
SB: This is not a Criminal Minds podcast.
CP: Sorry. Back to massages, and you think of how people might incapacitate you?
SB: (Laughs) Um, no, let's go to how I'm gonna be okay. Maybe I will stop thinking about that. Um, I don't have all the answers. I'm just saying folks, if you haven't been thinking about what it takes to feel okay—and like, I know that's a big ask in light of everything that's going on—like, I just encourage you to find some things now, before the weather hits.
CP: That's a good call.
SB: So that we can hunker down and feel slightly better.
CP: And you know—right. I don't have as many, um, words of wisdom in that regard as you do, but I will mention: something that I think fits in that scope is like taking time off work. Um, and I'm really excited—so, um, yeah, I have a week off coming up and actually it's a little more than a week, and I do have some work to get done, but the shop is closed. So I really truly have like several days of, of time to just like, do what I want. And it feels very exciting.
SB: That sounds lovely. And also, I think just very appropriate to mention, like, what is our relationship to work? I have so many people in my work life and in my personal life who are making huge changes. Whether they're leaving work completely, they're burnt out so they're taking leave, um, or just like contemplating a change because, what is it? They call it “The Great Resignation”?
CP: Yeah, I was gonna say, nationally. It's a huge trend.
SB: It's likely that it's impacting you, dear listener. And if it's not, like, just know that you are in good company either way, I guess, because everybody's just trying to figure out their priorities these days and trying to survive. So, yeah. Yeah. But, um--
CP: What else is new with you, Saraya? Oh, you want to mention NLC, huh?
SB: Yeah! New Leaders Council, applications are open. So if you—we’re talking about big changes and you are thinking like, “Hmm, I want to be more involved,” or “I want to learn more about politics,” or like, maybe changing sectors or just be with a network of really wonderful folks from different backgrounds who are interested in like—I guess it's, it's termed like “progressive leadership”, but that's such a wide umbrella and like such an interesting word. So I would say like, if you're interested, maybe you've heard us talk about it before, maybe you're not, but there is a leadership institute, uh, the Twin Cities New Leaders Chapter or Council Chapter hosts every year. And so applications for 2022 are now open. Um, just check it out, just type in New Leaders Council on Google or private message us.
CP: I’ll link it, I’ll link it too, in the show notes. Also, I feel like I need to tell the people: when I say I'll link it in the show notes, I will provide the links, but Saraya writes the show notes every single episode. And I feel like by me saying, “I'll link it, “ it makes it seem like I do all the show notes. No, no, no, no. Saraya does the show notes for every episode, I copy and paste them onto the website., ‘cause I make the website stuff, and then I just put a bunch of links in there. So, I will link it to the show notes that are written by Saraya. (Laughs)
SB: It's the same amount of effort, honestly, that goes into each one. And those show notes don't look, y’all, they’re looking real short over here.
CP: I think short and sweet is great. I just felt the need to say, to tell the people, um, that it is truly a collaborative effort, but I will link to the NLC app. Um, it's due shortly after this episode comes out, I think September 2nd or 3rd, right?
SB: 3rd, September 3rd.
CP: And it is an organization that I just wholeheartedly believe in as well. Um, and Saraya and I both took part in, I mean, at separate times, um, the NLC Institute.
SB: You get together and you get inspired and excited about the world, and okay, if we're going to talk about things that like help you stay okay, I would say NLC was huge for me during the pandemic, um, after the murder of Mr. Floyd, because it was like, felt so hopeless, but to know actual people in the community who are actively working in their different sectors to make the world a better place, um, gave me a lot of hope and helps me feel a lot less alone in it all. So there you go.
CP: And on a social level, you know? When I was—I was part of a cohort in 2015, so awhile ago. And one of the things that they mentioned—this is when I was still living in Louisiana—um, and something they mentioned was like, “Yeah, it's like, pre-screened friends.” ‘Cause like we all apply. And it truly is like, it really felt like that for me, because it felt like my values—I had done a lot of, um, you know, young professional organizations and most of them, I was just like, “Oh my god, eye roll, like, what? You care about the Humane Society more than people?” (Pretends to gag) Like, oh, I just—it was clear that my values didn't align super well with a lot of people in those groups. But when I was part of NLC, I felt like the people in my cohort really cared about the things that I cared about, and I could just like, speak so freely and bluntly about, um, issues specifically, like a lot of social issues. Um, and we were all on the same page and that just felt so, I don't know, indescribable, indescribably good. Like it was just really, really cool. So, um, if that idea of pre-screened friends speaks to you at all, um, that is also something here.
SB: Um, yeah. I also think it's interesting cause even if y'all have differing views, because people in my cohort definitely had differing views, we still had a, a commonality that allowed us to discuss that more than any other group. I just, there's so many decisions and protests and actions that people are taking in the world that I do not understand these days. Like I don't understand the basis for it, or like why it feels violent to me. Um, and so, even having a conflict of opinion or understanding with someone else, but like in a space where we all kind of agree on the same thing, just feels different and feels productive and useful in a way that a lot of the other discourse on Facebook or elsewhere doesn’t.
CP: That's a good point too.
SB: Um, okay. But there's enough. NLC apps, check it out. Cat will link it in the notes. I, the last thing that I have to say, right now, is that I got an oil change—
CP: —Ho yeah. Ho yeah.
SB: Wow. So good. But I learned something that I don't know, it was a useful or exciting for anybody else, but I thought it was. So when I went to go pay for my oil change, um, they were offering a cat shield, which is not for pets, but for catalytic converters because in our city and like, I'm sure many others across the country, um, catalytic converters are like, popular to be stolen out of cars. And so like, people might get a shield put in their motor area to stop somebody from, from stealing it. But what’s really nice,. the guy told me when I was paying, was that “Yeah, or you could just spray paint it with orange spray paint and like, people won't steal it because they can't sell it if it's marked like that.” So here's a tip for y'all: If you don't want to get a cat shield, if you are worried about your catalytic converters, just get going to of spray paint, spray that sucker and it'll dissuade a would-be thief from taking it.
CP: I guess I knew this was a thing, but I had not given it a second thought until, until you shared this with me. And actually, I—perhaps I need to Google like where it even is on my car because I have no idea!
SB: It's different, I guess? I do not know that much about it. I like how I'm coming in here with a lot of authority, a lot of confidence. Um, no, but I think, I guess it's different. So some cars are more enticing than others of where the placement is. So like, for instance, Subarus, which you and I have, um, are higher up, so they're harder to get to, so more, er, less likely to be attempted versus like, I think a Prius might be lower too?
CP: Like where it's at under the cars, like lower and where in ours it's higher? Cool.
SB: So yeah, you can just jack it up and like, pull it out from below is what I assume, but I don't know.
CP: Cool, well, well, I'm just going to take, I'm just going to take that info about the Subaru and run with it and not worry about this, (Saraya laughs) but man, this is interesting, helpful info.
SB: Is it? It's nothing. It’s nothing. It's just Saraya’s tip of the day. I don't know. You're welcome. You're welcome. What's, okay, what else is new with you? You're taking a week off, what else is happening during that break or what else is important?
CP: Well, I don't actually know much yet what I'm going to do on my time off. I had like, thought about like, planning something or going somewhere, but it just felt stressful. And I was like, “Well, the whole reason I'm taking a week off is to not be stressed.” So I'm not, I don't really have a whole lot of plans.
SB: Ooops! You played yourself.
CP: I did play myself. Um, but yeah, it just sort of felt like not planning anything would feel better. So that's what I'm up to. Uh, so I don't know, time will tell.
SB: State Fair?
CP: No! While I have been thinking just, I mean, way too much about some of the food items there—specifically like, this cheese brat stuffed pickle that's deep fried that I just cannot get out of my head—um, I don't feel like I’d be comfortable there.
SB: Wait. Walk me through it. Cheese brat stuffed pickle. It’s stuffed inside of the pickle?
CP: I'm not, I think it's like, cheese in a brat, brat in a pickle, and then deep fried? I need to find it, I saved it. Some, some thing showed it to me on Instagram and then I shared it and someone said, “Oh, you can get those at the fair.” And I went like, “Oh, my!” and I've been thinking about it ever since. Um, but no, no fair for me, mostly because of COVID considerations. And you know me, the only time I've ever been to the fair actually was when we went, Saraya—and listeners, you can, if you didn't, there is a minisode where we talk all about it. It was kind of a big deal. Because it was my first time at the State Fair, which is like really rare for a Minnesotan. Um, and Saraya was a beautiful guide to my first experience with it. Um, but yeah.
SB: You just had no concept, because I am not like an avid fair-goer either. So that was really funny that it like, seemed like I knew.
CP: But you knew!
SB: I remember. The fair. I mean, it's memorable. I would say. I think, okay, like you and I had this idea, this brilliant idea, and I wish they would take it and run with it and make so much money off of it. Curbside ordering at the State Fair would make so much sense. You order in advance, you have a time slot, you can only go during that time. They run around with little golf carts. They have your food ready to go. They would make so much money!
CP: They really would. I do, I still maintain that this is a good business idea, though I will admit the logistics of it might be complex, especially cause I think that's, the State Fair was having trouble hiring enough people, just generally. But like, if this could be like an outside thing and they could pay better, then people would tip as well. Oh, I just, you know, maybe that's just what we want. We want to just pull up in our cars and get like, the seven fair things that we desire and then be done. (Laughs)
SB: Yeah. I mean a girl can dream, I guess. I mean, it is more than that. Like I think about the agricultural or horticultural building and getting the little apple freezies and, I don't know, crop art, all that good stuff.
CP: So much good stuff.
SB: I too, won't be going. I think it's interesting. I was listening to MPR the other day and, uh, you know, they have a lot of weird underwriters, uh, um, Noom, right? So like, everything I hear from them now, I, I, it's like a grain of salt. I'm like, “Do I, is this actually a good company? I do not know.” But it was interesting, ‘cause they were advertising that they'll be at the State Fair. And I was like, “Come on MPR! Please!” And then they're like, “But we're not trying to draw a crowd. So there will be no live radio tapings. We'll just have a booth there, if you'd like to stop by.” and I was like, “Okay, well, all right. It makes sense. Like the fair is still going on, you are a big institution within the state, so it would be weird to not have it at all.” And so I was like, “Okay, all right. I'll be less begrudging about this, I guess, it’s smart that they're not doing any live sessions.” But still I just, I just hope it's safe for everyone. Not just COVID-related. There have been a lot of, like, dust-ups, um, at some other fairs that I've heard about and like, police getting called—
CP: People are tense. People are tense. We are, we are, the people are tense. It is a tense time to be human in the world.
SB: Yeah. I don't think drinking and eating and being in close quarters on a hot day will help, but who knows? Who knows. Um, okay, so anyways, you're not going to the fair, good answer.
CP: No, no fair for me, no fair for me. I guess the only thing that I would like, in terms of like Cat updates that I'll mention, is just like a little bit of a shout out, I guess? Like, so I've been dealing with some doctor stuff and I just, I just really loved Dr. Katherine Oyster, who we had on our podcast, who was my doctor. Oh my gosh. It's just like, doctor stuff is so much easier when you get along with your doctor, and you know you can trust your doctor, and you know, your doctor is not fatphobic and you can say on the real like, “Oh, I need this like, minor surgery to happen. I will drive anywhere for a non-fatphobic provider.” And she's like, “Okay, here's the people you need to go to. That's where you get the appointment.” Boom.
SB: Amen!
CP: I just like, oh, it is just so, I don't know. I just feel so fortunate, because I know so many people do not have that—so many fat people in particular—don't have that, um, rapport or like just trust in their healthcare provider. So big shout out to Katherine, and maybe I'll tell you more about my doctor stuff once it happens, but, um, it's nothing big. Um, but still things that I'm just like so happy that I have a really awesome doctor for.
SB: Okay. Shout out to you because, because of you, and Dr. Katherine Oyster being your provider, and us interviewing her, she is now my doctor as well!
CP: Oh my God, I forgot about that! Yes! Yes! Love it. Oh my gosh. That's so fun.
SB: What you're saying is absolutely accurate because on my first appointment, which is supposed to be like a consultation appointment, it was just like, we knew each other a little bit. Obviously because of the podcast, but she was just so good. And the way that they do their intake for her clinic is that you have to answer all these questions about who you are and what you want, and so they have an indication of what your health goals are from the jump, and then can dive in even further. And she's just so, she's got it, you know? Some people have the, I don't know, bedside manner or whatever, but it's just like talking to someone who is thoughtful, considerate, fun, like has her own personality.
CP: Yeah.
SB: But she’s just like, so knowledgeable too. So yeah, I was looking for a new primary care doctor and so I was just scrolling through profile after profile and I'm like, “Are you fatphobic? Oh, there's some weird coded language in your bio. This is weird.” And I was like, “Saraya, why are you doing this? Like, just go see Dr. Oyster.” So here we are, so.
CP: Okay, can I—this is, um, uh, an, a very extreme side note. Um, but you, Saraya, and also you, our audience probably know one of my favorite podcasts actually just ended. It's called Kar-Dishin It. I love the host so much, I don't even watch The Kardashians, and also I love this podcast. They recently stopped that podcast and like started a new one that is like a Patreon podcast. And I would, oh my God, I would, I would give those women so much money to listen to them talk, so that was not a problem for me, but they both go to the same therapist. And it's kind of cute, sometimes they'll talk about their doctor, like, you know, their, their therapist in, in those terms. And I'm just like, “Wow, me and Saraya are just like Jess and Marcy, cause we go to the same doctor!” (Both laugh)
SB: Let’s just emulate every podcast that we enjoy, out there. Oh man.
CP: But they've never had their therapist on their podcast, so I guess we are a step above. (Laughs)
SB: I think that’s probably a good thing. It could be, a quite unique experience truly.
CP: Um, yeah. Okay. That's a whole lot, but you know what? Speaking of media things, I know we have so much media stuff to dish about, so, we should get into it.
SB: Per uzh. Yes, let’s do it. Where would you like to start?
CP: Um, I think you should start with a show we've both watched. We were gonna talk about a couple of weeks ago and didn't, so, but we can talk now because this has ended, the series ended for the season. Not the series, sorry, the season ended.
SB: Season two of DAVE on FX—
CP: —Which, we watch it through Hulu—
SB: Yeah. Um, just ended, and it felt like a very short season. But like, honestly, who’da thunk that I would stan—well, not stan—I would be such a fan, and so invested in a show about a white rapper named Lil Dicky. Like—
CP: And that I would also be like, “Wow, this is some great content.”
SB: And that I could talk you into watching it, and enjoying it so much. But like, I just, if anybody knows who Lil Dicky, he is, it's like kind of a joke rapper. Like people think of think that, and it's fictional, but like, based on his real life. And I don't know, it's just very well done. It's, they're doing some like, very artful conversations on what it means to be basically anybody except a white rapper in the music industry, so you're still following his story, but you're seeing all these ancillary characters and what their experience is, you know, how it is like being friends with him as he rises to more fame. And it's just, I don't know. I don't know why, why it captures my imagination so much. It's so far away from the life I live, but it's giving you like, origin story, and trajectory, and Doja Cat as herself, and like looking into what a adult relationship with your parents are, or I don't know.
It just like, goes into this very surreal space. And then all of a sudden it'll have just like, the most human moment. And I don't really understand how they do it, maybe ‘cause it's like, very hyper self-aware and that makes it disarming, or, I don't know, like—also like, to follow a show that you can actively dislike the main character so, so much.
CP: So much.
SB: And he's just the worst. He's mostly the worst.
CP: He’s actually, awful.
SB: Yeah.
CP: Truly.
SB: Um, but to still want to watch it? But not because it's, um, like Succession or White Lotus where you're watching like rich, white people create their own demise. Um, it like, the character, all of the other characters are captivating. And I think, you know, Cat, what, it really comes down to surprise, surprise—
CP: —Oh, wait for it, wait for it!—
SB: It was friendship all along, it was friendship all along.
CP: It was friendship all along!
SB: And I think that's why this show is just so, so good. And if you haven't watched it, please try it. Please do.
CP: Yeah. And you won't like every episode, and you will not like some of the characters, but man there is just like, really good commentary and conversation on lots of topics that I just feel like aren't portrayed in that way on TV. And also, I think this season in particular, we got to really hear more from some of our favorite um, what did we say? Like side characters? Like Dave is like the main character, right. And then there's like a, a small amount of like other characters that are there all the time or often.
And yeah, I guess, yeah, it was just—and the finale, the season finale brought me to tears. (Saraya laughs) I did not expect that frickin’ Lil Dicky’s show would make me cry?! I texted you. I was just like, “And now I am crying.” Like it was, oh my goodness. And you told me, you were like, well, wow, you had hyped it up a bit, but it was merited. Like it was, oh my god. It was so, it was really good. So, um, it is like a little bit of a specific vibe, specific tastes. So if you, you know, watch a couple episodes and aren't into it, I won't fault you for that. But like, it is something that, yeah, Saraya and I fully endorse. It's really good.
SB: It’s just some really great storytelling. Which, I am a big fan of the show Atlanta and have been, since it came out. I think that gets compared with this a lot because it's like, okay, a rapper on the come-up. But like Atlanta is about, uh, well, not Donald Glover, but kind of, right? Like that's his brainchild and this is about Lil Dicky, but I just feel like they are so different, and yet also exploring just like these concepts of humanity in really beautifully shot and like organized ways. Um, it gets weird. It just gets very weird sometimes. And yet, I don't know. It's still like, it has a level of, uh, connected-to-reality-ness that keeps me coming back.
CP: There are some like, very like cringe-y moments and some like definite secondhand embarrassment to be experienced. Um, I would compare it, actually, to some of the feelings I felt in, um, when I watched PEN15, how it’s like, this is very real. And also like, oh my God, (gags). Like, I'm just, I see what they're doing. I, oh my gosh, it just makes me, um, yeah, it's this like, cringe-y secondhand embarrassment kind of space, but, but like for good reason, ‘cause it like, gets to cool things to talk about, you know, within the, within the, the plot.
SB: I know. And we're trying not to give it away, so we're talking in kind of abstract terms, so like just say this: DAVE. Watch DAVE, if you feel like it, we got, we got some strong recommendations. Also, there are very few shows that I'm like, “Oh, I can't wait until next Thursday. I can't wait until Thursdays because that's when a show comes out, “ and that's what happened with DAVE. So that's fun to have that, like, nostalgic moment of being excited for a show that comes out weekly.
CP: It's also fun—I mean, along the theme of “it was friendship all along”—it's also fun for us both to be kind of invested in it, you know, and like be excited to catch up with each other once we watch the episode. That's not something, you know, I'm often just like watching a whole season on Netflix or doing this or that, but like, being able to like look forward to an episode coming out and chatting about it is like a special kind of TV experience that's quite fun.
SB: Yeah. Okay. Let's talk about the other show that I can, which is not as good as DAVE, but has also captured our imagination. And I was very surprised you watched the second season.
CP: Okay. So the show Outer Banks on Netflix. Saraya got me, got me to watch it last year. Last summer, the first season came out and I was like, you know, like it was, it was kinda good. But I think, I was not super impressed—and actually, Saraya thought that I wasn't impressed at all. And then this year, the second season came out and I, I actually hadn't been on Netflix for a while because a lot of the things I watched are on Hulu, oh yeah, when I was going through Criminal Minds so much, and then also Frasier, my fall-asleep show, is now on Hulu. So I hadn't been on Netflix for a while. So I got over there and was like, “Oh my gosh, Outer Banks, new season!”
Um, so I watched it, I was like, “Oh, I'm excited to watch.” And I watched it and like, was quite into it and talk to Saraya about it. And she was like, “Oh yeah, I watched that a while ago. I just like, didn't think you'd be into it ‘cause you did not seem impressed last summer.”
SB: Yeah. And it's just like these kids going on a treasure hunt, like doing very dangerous activities in the ocean.
CP: Yeah and they’re like, high schoolers. And they're, they're so hot and there's so filthy? (Saraya laughs) Like literally, filthy like dirt. Like we, we found some articles we really enjoyed and one of them was a breakdown of like, did this person shower at all during this season? And if so, how many times.
SB: Yeah, it's a no, it's a no, it's so gross. These beautiful people just like, live on the ocean and eat watermelon for breakfast, that happens once. But like, it's just so removed from reality at every moment. Which is like, okay, we talk about Criminal Minds so much, but it's like ludicrous, right? These decisions that are made and the chain of events that follow, I think that's what the Outer Banks—it's like these high school kids who find a boat, I'm going to spoil a bit like there's a treasure hunt and a series of murders. And like, it's also very much like the rich versus the poor, but they've created their own silly caste system based on some, I don't know. It's weird world building, but like, I think for me, it just so captured my imagination in the pandemic last year, ‘cause I was like, “Let me travel to this fantasy, fantasy space where people are just like, doing the most and living,” it's like a grown-up weird version of the Goonies kind of.
CP: Kinda, yeah. And, you know, I think for me it was like, I, they left—so like, I think I can share this without giving too much away: season one ends, and like, one kind of thing, it's like, oh, this is like, some things wrap up, but there's like a couple of things that are left undone. And I was really curious, like, “How is this even gonna go? Like, we already figured out all of this stuff in season one, what else is there left to be figured out in season two?”
Oh, but they found stuff to be figured out. They created, yeah. They created some weird treasure to find, historical events to uncover. They gave one of the characters more of a role in the second season, which I really enjoyed a lot. Yeah, it was, it's just, it's just truly absurd. Like there's no way this could—I mean, isn't that what TV is?—but there's no way that all of these things could have happened to these folks and they could still be alive and kicking and chasing treasure. It's just, it's wild.
SB: It's also just like, where are the parents? Where are the parents that are actually caring about the kids? And like, sometimes it comes up, but like, it really doesn't. I just, I don't know. I clearly did not live this, um, the same life as these OBX kids. We went to the annual bonfire. (Cat laughs) It’s just— but also I think it does try to hit on like some traditions. Like I know in the first season there was this big event where they crowned, like, the king and queen of summer or something like that. And there's this interesting, like very rich, white, um, like, social class where it's like this, I don't know. So they try to tease, and then they try to like get into, I don't know, history and like slavery a little bit but it’s poorly done.
CP: It's poorly done, but it's interesting.
SB: Yeah.
CP: I also think that like, the commentary of like, power and class, like is poorly done and also it really helps, it's like, I don't know. When you're—and again, I don't want to give too much away—but like in a town where like certain people in power can do anything and get away with it. It's like, when that turns to you, and you're the victim of that? Like, how do you, how, how do you make sense of it? And I, so again, like poorly done and also really, really captivating.
SB: Somebody gets shot and then never takes a shower, and they have like, they die, and they come back to life—
CP: —Come back to life. They're still in the same bloody shorts for the next two days. Like, what?
SB: (Laughs) There’s a sibling in the, one of the articles we read they're like, “Is this person a ghost?” Because they show up occasionally, and then are never like—
CP: Yeah, let me find those two articles we really liked and we'll link them, but don't read them until, I mean, if you're gonna watch the series, like, watch the series and then read them. And it's just so funny because it points out all of these like, absurd things that you were thinking all along. It's quite there. Yeah. So would recommend, but like in a different way for Outer Banks. And then if you do watch Outer Banks, definitely read these two silly articles that we found to be just so fun.
SB: Also, are there any fat people? No.
CP: Oh, I actually don't think there's any fat people. Like, I can't even think of a one.
SB: I can't either.
CP: Oh, there's a couple guys that are bigger. Like the guy that—
SB:— Pope’s dad?
CP: Pope’s dad, maybe. And also like the guy who drives the boat, in the couple, not the boat at the end, but the boat at the beginning of the second season?
SB: Oh, sure, the bad guy.
CP: He’s like a, perhaps a larger lad. Yeah.
SB: He’s the most odious character!
CP: Right? Truly. Um, but yeah, no, no good fat people that I can recall.
SB: Oh, wait! No, he wasn't driving, but he was like the muscle for that group of people, and he kept being very clumsy and hitting his head. He was large.
CP: But he was kind!
SB: He was. He still like, kidnapped people, so I don’t know.
CP: Yeah, that’s also true. Yeah. So, all right, not doing so good for fat stuff like most media.
SB: Also DAVE, not good for fat stuff.
CP: Very not good for fat stuff. And actually, I think there's probably some blatant fatphobic comments in DAVE too.
SB: Yeah. There are.
CP: Cool.
SB: So very chill. Very cool. Very L.A.
CP: Yeah, very blegh, but we're still watching it.
SB: Apparently. Okay. Um, okay.
CP: Okay.
SB: We talked so much about these shows. Okay. What are the things that you've been watching that you want to talk about?
CP: Saraya, I have to give a Big Brother update. Oh my goodness.
SB: You do? Do you?
CP: I sure do. We're not going to talk about media on a Fat Dish episode without me going on and on for a little bit about Big Brother. Well, okay. So this season is so good. I’m pleased to report that all of the white guys have been voted out of the house, which is just, I mean, good for everyone involved, if you ask me. Um, and there is—I mentioned before that this season is more diverse than other seasons before. It always feels just like the white jocks win is—well, I guess I haven't watched a ton of seasons—but it's just like, there's certain people, certain personalities, mostly white people who tend to have, be like, you know, have be, preferenced in this, the, um, the game, the show.
But this year, because it's a more diverse cast, it's different. And there are six Black folks and they are in this alliance together. Um, and it's just, I think they could be the final six. Like it's really going very, very well. Do you know about alliances in Big Brother? Like, is any of this known to you?
SB: Survivor alliances are the classic alliances I know of, but—
CP: —Got it.
SB: No, none of, no, none of this is known to me. It means nothing to me.
CP: Survivor is not something that I've gotten into yet, but who knows, it could happen, probably sooner rather than later. But I think that this alliance is so good because they are, um, they're just so smart about how they're doing it. And like all of the folks in this alliance, called The Cookout, all of them have like, the kind of, bestie that's not in the alliance. And it's just really allowing them, they like still have been going under the radar, and things are heating up to a point now where it's like, depending upon who wins HOH—Head of Household—in the upcoming weeks it's like, will these six remain safe or will things get mixed up a bit? And it's just, oh my God, it's providing just really exceptional programming, and I'm so into this season. So, it's great. I also mentioned last time I talked about this, that me and my besties did like a little like, draft. And so I have like my five players that I hope to win. And I would like to report that all five of my people have not been voted out yet.
SB: Wow.
CP: So that's actually really good. However, kind of seeing how it's gonna go. I don't, I I'm certain, most of my people will be voted out shortly. Um, and my, my hope for winner is still Kyland, who is just such an attractive man and a kind soul. A real, a, dreamboat a true, a true babe. And one that I think is well-positioned to win a Big Brother and also is very well-positioned to win anyone's heart. I mean, truly anyone.
SB: I love that. And also, you need to tell the people what you wrote for your note about Kyland. I need to know, you can't let that go by, I see it here on the page. Clear as day.
CP: It’s just notes, ok? (Both laugh) I wrote—
SB: —Say it verbatim—
CP: —(Laughs) Saraya, don’t do this to me! I wrote, “And also, hubba-hubba, what a dream boat. Like seriously, a real and true babe”. (Both laugh)
SB: The “hubba-hubba” sends me.
CP: Got you.
SB: I was so excited to hear you say those words and you didn't do it. So thank you.
CP: You called me out!
SB: Thank you.
CP: This man. So in, in Big Brother, there's like, um, punishments, uh, which like sounds gross, but it's like silly things. Like “You have to wear this costume for the week if you lose this competition,” or whatever. And this man walked around the house in a donkey costume for a whole week and just continued to look hot as ever, like, how is that possible? Oh my gosh. What a, what a, what a cutie.
SB: What a real and true babe.
CP: A real and true babe. He just also seems so kind, the way he like, communicates with people and tries. I just, um, and of course he's a man, so he'll disappoint us, but so far everything I've seen has been great.
SB: Wow. My job, in my job, I like, I'm supposed to pick up on, on moments and, and investigate them and then open up space for people to reveal what's going on. And that right there, it's really just a giant flag, but we're in the media conversation. We can’t talk about that.
CP: No, we can, we can move on. Tell me, Saraya, tell me what else you've been watching, and also like maybe not just TV, are there other, have you been, you've been probably been reading a little bit as well?
SB: I've been reading and discarding books left and right.
CP: Oh!
SB: I'm trying, you have suggested some romance novels, and I do try to give them a fair shake. Like I'll get, you know, significant like, hours into them. Um, but then I just like, I guess I get so easily bored.
CP: Yeah.
SB: So like, they have been—
CP: —Well, and they’re very predictable.
SB: Which I think is what it is. Like if it's not, if the storyline is predictable then I need, like, some hardcore character development, or like the writing has to be very captivating. Um, it's not that I don't like the stories, but it's just like, if I can play this out, I don't know. I get it, and I enjoyed it and then I keep moving on. So like The Kiss Quotient by Helen Hoang, um, quite good, but also I just got kind of bored of it. So, that's disappointing because the writing was good and I liked the characters, but it just was like, “Ugh, they are like five people waiting for this, and I haven't touched it in a few days, so I guess I got to set, send it back in the Libby app.”
CP: Um, well we also, we, you mentioned to me also that like you've been listening—and, you know, I always like to listen—but I think maybe the listening is making, I don't know. Could it be taking away from the experience for you?
SB: Yeah. I think, you know, there is something to be said about having your own narrative voice too, and like building out the imagery and the scenery and that. So I think if I had had a physical copy of the book and was reading it that way, would have torn through that. Um, there was another book I got, uh, The Last Tang Standing, which I thought was going to be interesting but then the character was just so unlikable. And I was just like, ugh, I can't, I can't. Unlike DAVE, like, I don't see any redemption here. Like I don't see any other characters or developments happening. It's just like, “Woe is me. I'm rich and wealthy and nobody, no man likes me.” And it's like, I can't, I can't do that. Um, but I am almost done with, uh, The People We Meet on Vacation by Emily Henry.
CP: Oh!
SB: Which, is, I mean, it falls under that chic lit, uh, area. Also when we interviewed Kachina, um, oh my God, was that last season? Was that this season?
CP: That was last season.
SB: Oh, thank God. Okay. Wow. My life flashed before my eyes.
CP: She recommended the first one, or, Emily Henry's a book from last summer, Beach Read, which we both read and loved.
SB: Yes. I very much enjoyed it. And so this is the new Emily Henry book and I, yeah, I dig it a lot. It isn't you know, unexpected in the outcome, but I think the little insights about life and like, belonging and, um, I don't know, like running from yourself or I don't know. There's just a poeticness to the way that she develops the characters and their decisions that keeps me engaged. So I think that's what it is.
CP: Sweet!
SB: Yeah.
CP: That one’s on my list too, but I'm not, I'm not quite there yet.
SB: Let me know what you think when you read it. I'm also reading Da'Shaun Harrison's Belly of the Beast, which just released and y'all, it is very good. Um, it’s just very good. I'm not super far into it yet, but every page hits and it just hits really well. And it's talking about how there are books about fatness, there are books about Blackness. There are not books about fat Blackness, specifically from a masc point of view. And it's like, yes, we need to have this theory. We need to have this literature. And I am just like, so pleased, um, that it exists and the way it's put together is just simply beautiful. Beautiful, beautiful. So I highly encourage a read of that.
CP: Oh, that's great.
SB: But other shows. Uh, okay. Well, I think we should go back to our team outing and just talk about a little discussion we had because Lindsay, I think, I think it was Lindsay or was it Sophie? Oh no, I can't remember, but somebody suggested Love Island. And one of my coworkers told me that they were watching Love Island. So I gave it a go, I watched many episodes, but I don't think I can stick with it, but it's just like mindless and entertaining and gives you a very big like, middle school vibes. Like, “I don't know who I'm gonna couple with. Are you gonna couple with him? Are you gonna couple with him?” And it's just like, so silly, but also somewhat entertaining. And I think what got me thinking about my, like the world's captivation with these dating shows that exist now, whether that be, um, Love is Blind or Too Hot to Handle, or Bachelor is just like, there's this whole old generation of dating shows that I think have paved the way for how ridiculous these shows are now. And we were just talking about that at our team outing about the shows like Next and Fifth Wheel and Date My Mom and Room Raiders—
CP: —Room Raiders!
SB: Oh my gosh, just a whole era of really bad, problematic dating going on. And so I just—
CP: —And now we're all grown up, and we want these other shows.
SB: Yeah. Like what is it? Sexy Beast? Oh my goodness.
CP: Oh, yeah!
SB: Do you know the premise for that? I'm not going to watch it. I don't want to go watch it.
CP: I don't, I did not watch it. I don't think I'll watch it either. I would, there's a lot of stuff I need to work through before I get to that.
SB: Before you hit the bottom of the barrel?
CP: It’s not the bottom, but it's just not, there's a lot of stuff ahead of it.
SB: Oh my gosh. The premise is that people dress up like animals and then go on dates to see if true love exists, but they all look like they're actually quite conventionally attractive people anyways. So I don't know.
CP: It's just a schtick, it's not for real. Similar to Love is Blind. Like, cool, everyone here is like very lovely and beautiful. And so like, the idea of, oh, is, you know, falling in love with them before I see them. Well, it's like, you know they're going to be hot. It's just a matter of like hot in what ways? I feel like if you put a, you know, a true variety of people in those situations, it would go a lot differently, but I think it would go poorly and that would not make for good TV. So, yeah.
SB: Um, okay. But I do have a different reality show that I am in deep as of yesterday. And are you ready to know?
CP: Which one?
SB: So this is why my sleep got so messed up last night. And it's also thanks to you Cat, because you lent me your Peacock password screaming. And I found out that all of the Below Deck seasons are on Peacock!
CP: Uh oh, watch out.
SB: I love that show so much, and I cannot tell you why. If you are unfamiliar with the premise or the conceit of the show, it, it follows the charter season for a giant mega-yacht. And all of the staff who work there.
CP: Did you say mega yacht or MAGA yacht?
SB: (Laughs) No. I mean, I don't know their politics--mega, M-E-G-A.
CP: Oh, okay I was like, “A MAGA yacht?!”
SB: I love it. It's everything I ever want. No, no. I mean, I could, I could, you know, I could see there been some Venn-diagramming happening with some of the guests and it's all white folks for the most part. I'm starting out in season one. I know later on other people come on, but it's just like this weird slice-of-life, and then, you know, there's this camera crew following around the staff and the people who come on board and it's just like, so bizarre and so odd. And, um, I, yeah, I, I, okay. If you, have you seen it at all, Cat?
CP: No, you've talked quite a bit about Below Deck, but I have not seen it
SB: Okay. Well, I've only captured it here and there because I haven't had cable and I haven't like, watched it. Now I have access to all the seasons, so just strap in y'all. Um, like if you were on a yacht, what kind of position, or like, what role would you want to be in while you were working there?
CP: Oh, well, I would be very seasick, so probably none of them, but you know what I think would be fun? I would be interested in like working in like the kitchen, like the, um, maybe not doing like intense chef stuff, but like, you know, preparing trays of fruits and things for people.
SB: A sous chef, if you will.
CP: Yeah! Sure!
SB: Perfect. Love that for you. I love that for you. Um, I would just want to be a guest. I know that wasn't how I framed the question.
CP: Oh, oh, if that was an option, Saraya, if that was an option, that’s what I want.
SB: It wasn’t for you, it was for me.
CP: Wow!
SB: I would want to be a guest, but also I would be so nervous to have that many people waiting on me.
CP: Yeah?
SB: Like that would not be—yeah! To have a whole crew of people, like just catering to your every whim. That feels very weird to me. Um, But also they have so much money. Like a regular tip will be like $10,000 for like four days of yachting.
CP: So like, that's the thing, like I do think that that's a weird space to be in with like people, so many people, like kind of at your beck and call to like, wait on you or like, be there for you in service of you. But my perspective is like, if I had enough money to make sure all those people got paid, like, well, I'd be so into it. So into it.
SB: Yeah. Oh man. Maybe one day. I don't know. I don't know if we want it, but maybe one day. It's like the, all the, all the shots that Lizzo has, you know, and she goes on private yachts similar to that. So, yeah.
CP: Yeah.
SB: Okay. I am done. That is all I have to talk about. Well, do you have anything else that you would like to share?
CP: I do have a few more media things, and then I think we have a few like fat-specific media recs that we should share. I guess I would like to say that I'm looking forward to September. Speaking of Helen Hoang, her newest book comes out August 31st. I will be listening to that right away. Um, but also in September, okay. It was announced that a new season of The Circle is coming out in September, and I'm excited to watch that and just like, really hope there are fat people on that show this season, uh, not counting on it, but hoping for it. The Big Brother finale happens at the end of September. So, you know, I'll be watching, um—I was gonna say like, I'm wanting to say all these words that aren't words. Like, uh, diligently, virgintly, virgin—there's so many words I'm trying to make into one word. Long story short, I'll be watching Big Brother, um, avidly until the finale comes out.
SB: Nice.
CP: And then also in September, a lot of the regular shows come back, including all of my, uh, unfortunately copaganda shows that I love, uh, like the SVUs, the 9-1-1s, etc. Um, but I will say this, like I'm in the mood—so right now, if I don't want to like pay attention to TV, but I want TV to be, to be on, but I don't want to fall asleep yet. Um, I, my, my new old show that I've been watching is Modern Family. And man if that show doesn't make me laugh out loud sometime! It is just very silly, much of it doesn't age, super well, but it's I'm, I am enjoying making my way through that. So I'll be, I'll be watching that for my fun show until, until some of the other fun ones come back too.
SB: Nice.
CP: Yeah. Okay, I know you mentioned, um, to Da'Shaun’s book, which sounds awesome, and we'll also link in show notes. Um, but there's some other kind of fat stuff we wanted to share and—oh, I have to tell y'all about this book, If the Shoe Fits by Julie Murphy. Saraya, I think I gushed about this to you already a little bit. Didn't I?
SB: Yeah, but tell the people.
CP: Oh, it was so frickin’ good. And we are Julie Murphy fans. Um, to be sure, she writes more YA, which doesn't tend to be where I fall in like the, you know, the romcom read genre, but this book, If The Shoe Fits, was incredible. So, so, so good. And what I think is kind of fun is that it's part of this “Meant To Be” series that if I understand correctly, was like, commissioned by Disney as reimaginings of different fairytales. And so If the Shoe Fits is a re-imagining of Cinderella, and something interesting too that the next book to come out is going to be based on, um, Beauty and the Beast, and Jasmine Guillory is going to author that
SB: Oh my God.
CP: And as you know, we are fans of her.
SB: Have they just been listening to our podcast? I'm saying, Disney, get us in the loop here. Come on! Because we’re the only ones who know of these authors! Very silly, but I had to say it.
CP: No but these are authors that we've talked about here before. Um, so yeah, If the Shoe Fits is like a modern take on the Cinderella story and it's through this like storyline that is essentially a contestant on the Bachelor. Um, and it's, you know, I love anything reality TV and I love books that kind of let us imagine that we are in that world. And it was so, so, so good and such a cool—Julie is so good at writing fat characters. Honestly, probably one of, in terms of things that I've read, she's my favorite author to portray fat characters because she does so in a very honest, like matter-of-fact, matter of fat way, um, without going into like self, self-deprecating or like some of the, the not-so-great vibes that I think a lot of authors, um, do when they write fat characters, if they're fat themselves or not. Um, so it was a really cool way to show like, a fat person being on a TV show and acknowledging all of the fatphobia around her without, um, making her seem insecure or like she needed to think, think less of herself. It was just like, so well done.
I also was a little skeptical, cause it was YA, and then also like, based on a fairytale, and I don't love fairytale-y kind of endings to stuff. Um, which is silly because you know, like, like we've mentioned, most of these like chic lit or like romcom books, like all follow a very, very specific, specific model. Um, but yeah, when they're too flowery, it kind of gets to me. So, I was interested to see how that was handled, and it was just done so well. There are so many cute references to the Cinderella story without it being too too much, and an example of that is like, this girl has, the main character, has stepsisters, but like, they're not evil, and they're very fun. And it was just like, oh, the stepsisters are here, but it's not how you would automatically think in a Cinderella story.
I also, in terms of the romance of it, all, I like learned this phrase, it's a “closed door” romance, which means we get all the lovey-dovey romantic stuff, but there is no sex. It's like a, “Oh, we're making out.” And then like, the next morning, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. So you like don't get sex, which is, you know, while I do enjoy a little bit of that—or a lot a bit of that-in the books I read, this was like, just as great without it, which is kind of saying a lot.
And then finally, okay, of my gushing gushing gushing about this book. Um, I would 10 out of 10 recommend the audio book. It was narrated by this person, Jen Ponton, Ponten? Ponton? Who is an actor and queer fat activist, and it was just like really well narrated, really well done. And I'm saying this as someone who's quite picky about narrators. I’ll listen to a whole lot, but like, it takes it, it takes a, a true, wonderful, um, narrator for me to be, to be all about them. And I'm yeah. Jen was just a fantastic narrator for this book.
SB: Solid.
CP: Would you, would you read it?
SB: Yeah, of course. I do like Julie Murphy. I haven't read every book by her, but as you were talking, I actually put a hold on Libby. So there it is.
CP: Fun! Yeah. And I hope that this is an audio book that you get into. Like, I, I do believe this is like truly expertly narrated. So I think some of like, the listening things that you're not loving so much, I bet that won't pop up for you in this one.
SB: Yeah, no, I think I will like Julie Murphy. I've enjoyed all of her writing before and I've read it. So I read Dumplin’. And then I also listened to--
CP: —Faith Taking Flight?
SB: No, I haven't read that one or listened to it.
CP: That one’s good.
SB: Puddin’?
CP: Yeah. The second one after Dumplin’.
SB: Yeah. I listened to that one and I really enjoyed it. And then there was, is Pumpkin one?
CP: Yeah. That's the third in that series. I haven't read that one yet.
SB: I haven't read that one either. So yeah, of course! I really enjoy Julie, the way that she gives voice to our characters is so well done. And I think--
CP: —Just expertly done.
SB: Very inviting. So, yeah. Cool. I'm glad you could give us the deets on that.
CP: It’s not often we get fat, we get fat characters in books. So when we do, I want to be sure to talk about it, you know?
SB: Absolutely. You know what else we don't often get.
CP: What?
SB: Fat goddesses, uh, collaborating. It is of course Lizzo Watch y'all, it's time for us to talk about the Lizzo and Cardi B collab for the song “Rumors.”
CP: Yes!
SB: Yeah, it happened. It's out. You've probably listened to it a few times and it's a solid, solid song. I don't know. It's not, like, my favorite from Lizzo, but I'm not disappointed by it. And every time I listen to it, I just, it's a little catchier for me. A little more fun.
CP: That’s the thing. I think I need to listen to it more, because that's sometimes, not necessarily with Lizzo, but just generally, I'm kind of like, eh, the first time I listen to something, but then once it's like in the rotation, I'm like, “Oh actually, yeah.” Yeah. I feel a lot more.
SB: It's, it has some interesting like, music behind it, that makes it feel not of this time, but also classic too. I don't know how to describe it, but I'm just, I love when she gets to launch new music. I actually am loving the way that she and Cardi interact on social.
CP: Yes!
SB: And, you know, I don't know if that was like contractual and all set up or not, but whatever, they're really, really lifting each other up and I'd love to see it. I love it a lot.
CP: Yeah. And the video is fun in a lot of ways. I mean, I love like, Cardi with this big pregnant belly, just like there, being hot and cool. And I love how Lizzo has just all visibly plus-size dancers that are part of this group. And that, just, like, the fatter the dancers, the better, in my opinion. I want, I want more of them. I want the, the larger, the better in terms of who we're finding to be in these videos. And it was just really cool to see a lot of the folks that were there for there for this one.
SB: Yeah. So, Lizzo Watch. That should be, um, a segment that we have. I don't know if we'll ever get to that.
CP: Well we talk about her quite a bit, how could we not? Yeah.
SB: How can we not? Yeah.
CP: How can we not?
SB: Okay. What else? What else?
CP: Oh, I do want to just briefly mention another podcast that I wholeheartedly recommend. I think you do as well.
SB: Yes.
CP: Maintenance Phase. Um, Maintenance Phase from Aubrey Gordon and Michael Hobbes, and I think that we've probably talked about it before on the podcast. Maintenance Phase has been going on for, I think maybe like a year or so. Um, they put out podcasts, I believe every other week. Uh, it, it came out around the time Aubrey Gordon's book, um, What We Don't talk About When We Talk About Fat came out, and Saraya you and I both read that book and thought just so highly of it. I think part of what I really enjoy about Maintenance Phase is that they tackle like, very specific things, things that we reference. And like for instance, they talk a lot—there's one episode that came out recently about the BMI and they spend an hour really deep diving and unpacking like the BMI, the history, what is wrong with it, why the system is flawed. And like, Saraya, on some of our minisodes, we've mentioned the BMI, and we've mentioned it a couple of times throughout the podcast as well, but like, we have not dedicated an hour to a deep dive.
SB: Right.
CP: So I love how they're providing some really exceptional—dare I say, like reporting? And definitely research on topics that really align with things that we care about and actually talk about and reference, but they're giving so much more context and just like talking about it a lot. So it feels like a really cool supplement to some of the things that we've talked about here on Matter of Fat.
SB: They just also have such good chemistry, which I think is what is so captivating for a lot of listeners and why it's taken off so quickly. Um, yeah, I think Michael, is a journalist and then Aubrey is an academic from what I can tell. And so they both have this huge respect for research and like the scientific method, even if they're not like mathematicians or anything like that. And I, it's just captivating and also so fun to hear their reactions to things. And sometimes it's like, okay, that's a little much, but it's also because it's like, you're talking with a friend and I'm sure we do that all the time too.
So, um, yeah, I just, I have listened to a bunch of those episodes recently while I was working and, you know, in between calls and like, while listening to a little while, like answering emails and just doing other like admin work. It's just so cool to hear and learn about these concepts that I know to be true, but to get the background and like in-depth detail while also feeling entertained is like, hard to do. And they've done a great job with it.
CP: Yeah. It's like very research-heavy while also being just like, so chatty and fun, uh, which is, I think one of my favorite kinds of podcast to listen to. So I would say, I think if you are listening to our podcast, you would greatly enjoy Maintenance Phase. Not so many Criminal Minds references, um, but a lot of really good information.
SB: Oh my goodness. Also like, I would hope that y'all had already heard of Maintenance Phase before us chatting. I think we've mentioned it before a little bit too, but I will say what was really lovely in Da'Shaun Harrison's new book, um, in the forward or the acknowledgement mentioned Aubrey Gordon, and it, in that. Just like full circle for me too. It's just like, there is such a specific community of fat liberationists out there. And so when you see them interacting and engaging and like acknowledging each other in the work they're doing just feels real good. Like very, very good. So.
CP: I love that. I love that.
SB: Okay. Um—
CP: —This is a long one, Saraya, we've been chatting haven't we?
SB: About nothing! (Cat laughs) About truly—Below Deck. Catalytic converter shields. I cannot, if you've made it this far, you're a real one, real one.
CP: You’re a real one.
SB: But you did have updates for us about something we talked about in our last episode a little bit.
CP: I have like, kind of some fat stuff that's come up this week that I think will be really fun to dive into. Um, and like you mentioned, it does relate to stuff that we've been talking about just recently. So this week, um—so perhaps, you know, when you're listening to this to be like, oh, last week—um, two kind of announcements came out about plus size brands expanding their size range and making different changes. and I want to talk about both of them.
So the first that we saw come through is Old Navy. Old Navy has said that they're going to, I think, effective—from what I'm reading, effective immediately, though I haven't been to an Old Navy in a very long time, kind of want to poke in to see if that's true—but effective like, now-ish, they're going to carry up to size 28 in store. They're going to make size 30, but I think that will just be available online, though I think I would hope that people are pushing back at that and maybe that'll be in store as well. But part of the big deal with all of this is that they've committed to having plus-sizes be the same price as all sizes. You know, so having everything in every size from probably like an extra small to a 4X/5X.
SB: Wow.
CP: It’s gonna be the same prices and then they're going to have it in store sized in the same areas. So there will no longer be a plus-size section at Old Navies, they will all be together. So that's what I'm understanding from what I've read about this. It seems in some ways like a really big deal, and in other ways I'm kind of like, meh, but we can talk more about that. I want to mention the other brand too, cause I think there's some kind of parallels here.
You might remember in our last certain discourse, we talked about this brand BloomChic, um, and they actually just announced like shortly after this Old Navy announcement, they announced--
SB: —Shortly after our podcast episode!
CP: Shortly after our episode, that they would be expanding to size 30. Um, and so, and that will be, uh, that'll take place by January 2022. So by this upcoming January, everything that they're offering should be available in—well, I don't know if they committed to everything they have being up to size 30, but offering up to a size 30. Um, yeah, so there's like this, this feels like kind of very relevant fat news. um, and a lot to be said about both, both of these things. So Saraya, do you wanna, should we dive into BloomChic stuff or Old Navy stuff or kind of talk about it together? What are you thinking?
SB: I just, I don't have a ton about the Old Navy update, just a couple of things that I've noticed. First, I first realized it—well, I saw it on an Instagram ad actually, but then later I saw Aidy Bryant publicizing it because she is in the commercial for it. And it's like, that's very smart, Old Navy.
CP: Oh yeah.
SB: To get the, the darling of fat media, in my opinion, to be in this. And also like, I really like Aidy Bryant and also like, I do not get that commercial at all. I was like, this is silly. This is not, I dunno, it's just a bunch of fat, beautiful folks—or like, a variety of people I should say, um, dancing and like, in a warehouse seemingly? And it's cute, it's very Old Navy, and it's also like, not that funny in my opinion and not that captivating, but it's fine. Um, so that was how I really found out about it. And then I do follow, I don't know her full name, @NearAndChar on Instagram. Do you know who I'm talking about?
CP: I do, but I also don't know her full name.
SB: Charlotte, something. In any case, she was a model for this release.
CP: Yeah.
SB: And so she went into an Old Navy store the other day. So I was watching her stories and it was just like her seeing her face in this, in this Old Navy store and then like tearing up and she's like, “I didn't think I was gonna get this emotional, but like here I am in multiple places in the store.” And then a bunch of the shop assistants came by and like, took photos with her and took photos of her, and then they sent it out to their district manager to be like, “Oh, we have a model in the building.” And it was just like cute. It was very cute.
CP: That's so cute.
SB: It was very cute, so. That’s all I got.
CP: So I did, I did see some of that. I didn't—I know that Aidy Bryant is in the commercial, but I actually haven't watched the commercial, so, sorry, I should have done that before this.
SB: Oh, well.
CP: You know, I think with the Old Navy stuff, like I mentioned, part of it seems like pretty exciting, but also I just, I want to, like, I'm feeling very like, “I’ll believe it when I see it” energy to both of these announcements. And something I think is interesting—I don't have the receipts on this, unfortunately, I was trying to do some research—but, uh, folks have been saying that like this type of thing has been done by Old Navy before, and has been kind of short-lived, and one person I know who mentioned this, it must've been on their story. Local, uh, Instagrammer, @ThriftyFatty was talking about this. And I wish I would have like, saved stuff, or paid more attention, so I could have researched it further. But I do know like Old Navy has done some things like this, saying, “Oh, we'll have these things in store or we'll do this, or have this in this thing”, you know? And maybe it hasn't, um, it hasn't, it's been like an exciting announcement, but then really hasn't continued.
However, I was, I, I skimmed it, but I looked at an article about this, and someone from Old Navy said that this was like the largest, most integrated launch they've ever done since their brand's inception. So it feels like they are saying, “No, this is big and we're doing this.” And so I think that that's exciting. I think another exciting component of this is, um, the idea that things will be priced the same. I think that's something folks have been calling for for a very long time. So if that happens, if that is true, then I'm really impressed with that.
Um, but something else I think ties into this is the idea of like, plus-sized sections and something that folks have talked about for a long time, which is like, you know, do we like the term plus size? Do we think that that's helpful? There was this like, sort of, “Drop the plus” push several years ago, um, and I think a sentiment that some people still have today, many people who are plus sizes have, which is, “I just want to shop in the same section as my friends who don't wear plus sizes. Like, why is this such a big deal?” And so I think for folks who feel that way, this is a big, a really big development for them.
Um, for me, I personally think like, having plus-sized sections is still really important because there are so few brands that do have plus sizes, and for me, it's an indicator of like, do you have something that will cover my body or not? Like, it'd be nice to know this before I'm going to try to patronize you. But I do understand that desire to like, want to be in the same section as everybody else. And I think that big picture, I hope that's where we're going as a society, as a culture, as an industry of clothes, I just feel like it's going to be so long till we get there. Um, but, that doesn't mean that places can't be making those changes now. And so like if Old Navy does everything they're saying, they're going to do, cool. This seems, this seems kind of cool.
SB: Yeah, it does seem cool, and also like that accessibility with the price point is what's most intriguing to me. And I know you said that, but I'm also wondering like how, right? Like that has been the barrier for so many brands for so long. And so it’s like, did you just make everything slightly more expensive to like go with this logic to that it does cost more? Or did you actually realize that you mass produce so many clothes that like, it is marginal for you to like actually do that? I don't know. I wish we had more information about that.
I was also thinking just like, as you were saying, like, “We just want to be on the shop in the same place with our friends or like family members.” And like, I think about families and how back to school shopping is like Old Navy-centric for a lot of families and, and like how much that's going to help families for their budgeting and cost going to one place for everybody. Also like, yeah, your demo has to show the majority of the people who shop there are like, you know, Americans and we know American women in particular are like higher sizing than what is usually projected. Or like, I don't know. It's just like this all just make sense. So of course that works.
‘And then another part of me is like, what else was the tipping point for this to finally happen? For some reason, my mind went to those like Instagram Reels or Tik Toks where it's like, um, like a straight-sized person and then a plus-size person. And they're like, “We wear the same outfit,” but like, and then they just like, jump to the music and the outfits. And I was like, I wonder if that played into it, right? Like how much has social media played into it with all these Shein hauls and all these clothing hauls. It'd be like, “Oh, we could actually have people wear the same clothing at different sizes because this seems to be captivating for people, and then that's just brand awareness too. So like, why wouldn't we do that?” I don't know. It’s just, curious.
CP: Those are all really interesting things to think more about, for sure. I will say, like, one thing that is not that exciting about this is that like, if we're going to a size 28, they said also 30, but 30 with what I was seeing when they announced it would just be online.
SB: Yeah.
CP: Size 30 is not the end all be all of people's sizes. Um, and so that's a consideration too. Like, yes, this is more than going up to a 3XL, but it's still leaving people out. Um, and so I think that that's something that needs to be named too.
SB: Yeah. And like how many of these sizes are you gonna have in any store at any given time, too?
CP: Yeah. Um, also, also, like, I think that, uh, you know, you were wondering like, is some of the stuff that's happening in social media influencing this and like what, what prompted Old Navy to do this? I bet there's multiple factors. And I mean, we can't forget that there are the people who forever have been calling for this from Old Navy and other brands. More recently, Saucye West, and this, you know, #FightForInclusivity boycott. I don't think that this boycott in the last like month has made this happen so quickly, but I, I have to believe that that work has put, has, has been applying pressure to places, nd I hope that that's part of what has, um, helped instigate some of these changes.
SB: Oh, it's interesting that you use the term “applying pressure,” because recently we—I know we talked about this—but we saw this post from @AshleighChubbyBunny on Instagram, who said, “Look at y'al,l look what happens when we apply pressure, with the flight for, fight for inclusivity and other things, and she was actually referencing BloomChic and their news!
CP: Ahhh!
SB: And it’s like, uhh, maybe, maybe, maybe not. I don't know about that, but I just, it was so interesting to see these things that we had taken time to dive into and look into, and then all of a sudden see them coming to the surface with BloomChic news.
CP: So the BloomChic news also came out this week and I am just so curious as to like how, and if these things interrelate? Like if the Old Navy news had some push for BloomChic since we talked? I don't know, but it just seems curious that it happened, so, you know, in, in such quick succession. Um, yeah, and I guess the BloomChic set like, cool, you're going to size 30, that's great. I read about this in an article that we'll link in the show notes from the @TheCurvyFashionista but also, it was like sponsored by BloomChic. So the main piece that I could find about this expansion from BloomChic was sponsored by BloomChic. And I know like, that doesn't mean that everything is not, um, honest or fair and a piece, like the person who wrote it is like does a lot of really great work around fat stuff. So, you know, that's, I'm not saying that like, we can't take this, um, their word for it, but I also think it's curious how the one thing to announce this has looked as if it was like in partnership with BloomChic.
SB: Okay, but BloomChic has been doing that. I mean, that's why we talked about it in our last, uh, Dirt and Discourse, because they partnered with influencers to host this dinner, and this is prior to them even having sizes 22 on their website, so like.
CP: I think it's really clear that BloomChic can really talk the talk, and I think this is due in large part to their person, the person who is the director of social media and community, Nicole Phillips, who worked for Torrid for some time, who worked for 11 Honoré for some time. I imagine it is due in large part to her influence that like, the things they are saying, like in that piece, um, in The Curvy Fashionista, the quotes from her are just, they are spot on. It is really clear that they have, um, a true understanding of what plus-size shoppers are looking for in a lot of ways and are really, um, wanting to, to, to deliver. One example of that is like, in the piece, they talk explicitly about size charts. Like, “Yeah, we're going to go up to size 30. We want to be careful and thoughtful about this because if the size chart doesn't reflect, like, where actual people's sizes are, you know, what is the point even?” Which is exactly what we've been saying. So it's clear that they're listening and trying to implement some of this stuff.
Um, which is, yeah, so, but similar to the Old Navy thing, I just really am interested to see how this will play out. Like this sounds great, um, we're talking the talk here, folks, like how will this walk be walked? Will every piece go up to 30? Will there be an opportunity to expand beyond size 30? Um, will they really be talking about how like, sustainable things are when we know that there's a lot of pieces to a business like this, that aren't super sustainable?
SB: Yeah. Hmm.
CP: Uh, I also, okay, Saraya I have so many thoughts, and I really, like—reading this article made me think, especially ‘cause we had gone so in-depth about this before, um, I just have so, so many thoughts and maybe one more that I could share if that'd be okay?
SB: Just one!
CP: Wha—?!
SB: No, I don’t care.
CP: So in The Curvy Fashionista article, um, they also noted that the, that BloomChic has been in collaboration with The Plus Bus, which is a plus-size resale shop in LA similar to Cake. I mean, different and cool, but a similar concept to Cake, right. And they said that they, um, like have sent some of their returns and photo shoot samples to The Plus Bus, and they shared that, um, to talk about how sustainable of a brand they were. So like, of course my ears perked up when I heard that. And similar to the questions you were wondering about Old Navy, like, what are the details of all of this, those things were, had stuck out to me as well. Like what are, what are the details of this arrangement with The Plus Bus? Like, is that a good, is that collab a good marketing move for The Plus Bus or not?
You know, of course I'm gonna insert myself into this. If BloomChic were to reach out to me and offer my shop that kind of collaboration, what would I say? You know, like ,Kanye voice, “I guess we'll never know” because they haven't and didn't, and probably won't—
SB: —But they might!—
CP: —But like, what would I do? Um, and, you know, yeah—
SB: —You ask from like a business perspective, you'd ask for like, who is making these decisions? Because, I mean, much with Old Navy and through everything you've been saying, I've just been like, who is making these decisions and what is, what are they actually asking? Because you're right, like, they're saying all of these things, but what is the actual goal in doing this? And if you have an answer for that, but it might be a very good collab.
I think we're so hesitant with BloomChic because it seems like, very small venture capitalist-backed, like, Chinese-based group that wants to do international expansion. So like, in my mind, it's like, well, that's not accessible. That's not good for the environment. That's not X, Y, Z, just because of the models we see out there right now. Um, but who knows. Maybe they're doing something different. I don't think so, but--
CP: Right. And I think it's probably really clear, like with me, with going on and on about all of these thoughts and like my general tone here, like, I don't want to like BloomChic—and at this point I do not like them—but taking a step back, like, it is really clear that they are trying to do a lot of the right things. Um, meet a lot of the needs of, like, the plus-size community in the business world, what we call “pain points,” right? Like, what are the things that customers complain about and how can you, um, swoop in and fix those things for them? It's clear that they have their finger on the pulse of a lot of that. So I dunno, maybe I'll change my tune at some point here.
SB: Okay, but the name is not good, and I hope this doesn't diminish any chances you get to partner with them, but like this name is not good.
CP: No. Also Saraya, I hope it's clear, I don't want to partner with them.
SB: I know, but I just want to be very mindful about what I'm saying.
CP: I know, I know, and me too, like maybe I will be mad, you know, next year that I have like, trash-talked BloomChic, and now—(crosstalk and both laughing)
SB: —You’ll have to disband because of loss of business opportunities with BloomChic.
CP: It’s like I just, I don't want my shop's name associated with this brand at this point. Like at this point I'm, it's, it feels as if I would be in cahoots with Shein. And that just feels like I'm just actively not into that.
SB: (Laughs) In cahoots!
CP+SB: Hubba-hubba. (Both laugh)
CP: So, I mean, who knows where this will go? But I think both you and I come at the, this news with a really healthy sense of skepticism and a true curiosity about like, who is making these decisions? Where's the money going? What's really going on here?
[THEME MUSIC FADES IN AND OUT]
SB: Uff da!
CP: Uff da?
SB: Y’all, we’ve come to the end of an inordinately-long Fat Dish episode, but we made it! Thank you for staying tuned.
CP: I loved it, and I hope you all did too. Always love spending time with you and being in your podcast rotation.
SB: Um, and as always y'all can visit www.MatterofFatPod.com, where you're going to find those shownotes that I write and Cat adds links to, transcripts, info about us, access to older episodes and so much more. Um, one note we want to share is that we won't be having a September Podluck, but look forward to getting back into it on the first Thursday of October.
CP: Yeah! And you know, now is the time where we share shoutouts in the outro. I will share a big old shoutout to everyone engaging with us on social media and especially sharing our stuff on social. We really appreciate you.
SB: We do appreciate you. And we know it's like, hard, if you don't use Apple Podcasts. So if you want to leave reviews elsewhere—and I didn't talk with Cat about this, but like, give us a heads-up? I mean, I’d shout you out for sure if you let us know where you're reviewing. But if you are able to pop onto Apple Podcasts and give us a review, or if you do send us some Fat Cash on Venmo, we would love to share your name out in our next episode. But for this episode, we want to give a big round of applause to Josie for your incredibly generous contribution to our Fat Cash fund. Thank you so much for helping us do this work. We are incredibly grateful.
CP: Yeah. As always, it is never expected, but always, always appreciated. And with that, we've officially come to the end, y’all!
SB: You sure? You sure you don't want to go another half hour?
CP: No, I have more things to do! Make it to two hours? (Laughs)
SB: Oh my God. This was not anticipated, but we love it. Until next time when we're back with another episode of—
CP + SB: —Matter of Fat.
[THEME MUSIC FADES IN AND OUT]