S4E10 - Paxyshia Yang, Personal Style, + Influencer Responsibility

Season 4, Episode 10,

Paxyshia Yang, Personal Style, + Influencer Responsibility

Released on August 18th, 2021. For complete episode info, visit this page!

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​​Cat Polivoda: Welcome to Matter of Fat, a body positive podcast with Midwest sensibilities. Hi, I'm Cat Polivoda, a local fat feminist, shop owner, and still a little stuffy. Summer colds. I mean, no fun, especially when you're coughing a lot in the time of COVID. Uh, I am joined by my co-host and producer, Saraya Boghani.

Saraya Boghani: Hi, I'm Saraya. I'm a fat multiracial Minneapolitan millennial who is still living for the little Matter of Fat dinner we had with our assistants recently, it was a dream!

CP: On Matter of Fat, we talk about the cultural politics of fat liberation with a Midwest perspective. 

SB: And first things first, we need to offer a correction and apology about something we talked about in our last episode.

CP: Yes. In our last episode, while chatting about Saraya’s rec, Mare of Easttown, we mentioned our amusement with some of the contestants on the show, The Circle, and made fun of how they say a name of a Pennsylvania town, Conshohocken. So first we said it wrong. We thought it started with a P. It is, in fact, Conshohocken with a C, and more importantly, we made fun of the name of this town, which was inappropriate as the name Conshohocken comes from Unami, which is an Algonquian  language spoken by Lenape people.

SB: This is something we're familiar with in a Midwestern context, right? There are lots of towns and cities named for the Indigenous names or words assigned to them, and yet. I didn't make that connection in our commentary. And we sounded flippant. 

CP: Yeah, we did. What was intended to make light of a funny family that appeared in not one but two seasons of The Circle instead made fun of the name of a town and thus marked its history and the Indigenous communities who live there. So we want to offer an apology.

SB: Yeah, we want to apologize. And also thank a listener, Holly, who took the time to comment on this and help us see the error we made.

CP: Thanks for taking that time, Holly, and thanks to you all for listening to our correction and apology. Okay. Now, let's see what's in store for this episode.

SB: On this episode, we are chatting about our style evolution throughout the years, sharing our interview with Paxyshia Yang, social media star, and second in command at Cake Plus-Size Resale and discussing the many dimensions of plus size influencers and fashion in the Dirt and Discourse. 

CP: Yep. We're getting into all of that—

CP + SB: —as a matter of fat.

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SB: Okay. Style evolution. It's not something you haven't heard from us before, but we wanted to take some time for two reasons. First, it'll come up in our interview with Paxyshia later. So you will hear us talk to her about her style evolution, and she has this great line where she says, “Now I look back at it. Yes, it looked goofy, but it felt good!” And we just love that so much. And then, another reason we wanted to talk about this is because a few weeks ago, I was at a cabin weekend—I guess it was a month ago now. Wow. Summer, life comes at you fast. Um, but I was at a cabin weekend and one of my close friends had a question that says, well, basically they asked, “Does your style/wardrobe represent your personality?” And that really generated some very interesting questions, so that is the topic du jour today.

So Cat. Does your style/wardrobe represent your personality? 

CP: Yes and no. I mean, in some ways it does, but I think in other ways I'm not quite there yet. Um, but Saraya, I'm really interested to hear from you. How did you answer that question?

SB: I mean, it wasn't so far off of what you just said. So, I guess the person who asked it has a very different experience than I do because they said, “Yes, unabashedly. Yes, my wardrobe can reflect however I'm feeling, my mood. I just go into a thrift store and I can shop in basically every section,” because they're very like gender nonconforming with their wardrobe and their choices. And so, they just feel like they can always put a look for whatever mood they're having. I was just like, “That ain't it for me, babe. That is not my reality”. In fact, I don't thrift because it just felt so futile over the years. Um, or even like going into regular stores, it felt so futile. And so for me, it's just like a solid no, and because my fashion sense and like what I—the foundation for my style is not my personality, it's practicality. Which like, Capricorn, maybe a little practicality in there, but, you know, where can I find garments that fit and were reasonably priced? And that's a very narrow margin, for what exists out there. 

CP: Okay. So two follow up questions I have for you. 

SB: Okay. 

CP: How has your style evolved? Like from, you know—we talked, we've talked many a time on the pod, us as adolescents, you know, young folks and you, and your performance fleece, like we've discussed. But like, from that performance fleece moment to now, like, I mean, give us a quick once-over, like how have things progressed for you? And then also, I want to know Saraya, like what would it take for you to be able to answer yes to that question? That your style does align with your personality, like, you know, um, nearly completely?

SB: Absolutely. Great qs. Great follow-up qs. So I guess as far as like a snapshot of the evolution of my style, um, certainly performance fleece, certainly loved that vest. (Both laugh) Um, after, after, you know, being a sixth grader, I think I got into a lot of peasant tops, a lot of graphic tees, um, skirts, like very like leaning towards a hippy style, but not quite there. You know that like, cross-body bag that was maybe macrame, maybe patchwork something or other?

CP: Oh yeah!

SB: I mean, yes, everybody, everybody knows that. So that was kind of my style, a little preppy, whatever. It was just kind of whatever existed, but like that was what felt comfortable and like approachable to me as a, as a larger teen. And then I think after that, there were a lot more colors. And if I look back at my wardrobe as a teenager, like I just liked color, and so I used that in the small and the few pieces I had.

Into college, it definitely got, or became more muted. And even after college, way more muted, more, um, monochromatic: black; green; hunter green; dark green; camo colors; you know, you know, the look. And I think, was I being cool or was I just like conforming to black as an easy, easy thing to wear?

Um, also like a lot of my style in my early twenties was based on my job, so I was just wearing a uniform most of the time. And so I didn't really have the capacity to dress differently or like go shopping for a look outside of what that was.

Um, I will say from time to time, because I never felt like I could go and just buy a whole wardrobe. I've become a piece collector. So I'll have a number of different pieces that I really enjoy that maybe have a good pattern or a good color to them, and I will just keep those for many, many years. And so maybe I don't have a whole look, but I've got different pieces. And of course that exploded once I met you and then also with Cake, and just like, the availability and options to try things that maybe I wouldn't have tried before and not regret like spending a ton of money on them, because that practicality piece is still so embedded in what's going on with that. So, yeah. 

CP: Yeah. 

SB: But you did ask a question, what would it take? Money.

CP: Yeah, what would it take Saraya? Yeah, I hear that. I hear that. 

SB: Yeah. Why would it take money for you? 

CP: Well, I mean, I think there's like, a few things for me. Money is one of those things. Um, and you know, I think for me, like my, I'm quite lucky in my present day life. Like I just have access to a lot of stuff because of my work and you know, my, my life, my shop. Um, and so probably more now than maybe ever before, like, I would say my style aligns with my personality and like my style’s kind of where, closer to where I might aspire for it to be. But truly I can't afford the kind of pieces that I really want to be wearing all the time. 

I mean, I've said it before and I will say it again: you will know I have reached like, rich bitch status when every other day you see me in some new, like JIBRI piece. Just with this, the waists and the hips, oh my goodness. I'll I—for those of you who aren't familiar with JIBRI, or maybe it's “je-BREE,” um, I'll link them in our show notes. Gosh, it's just, I mean, the silhouettes of those pieces are my absolute favorite. I have a couple of them and just like, wear them to death because I love them so much. But also—so I guess, I think that I think of myself when I was younger and, you know, like, shopping at Lane Bryant at the Valley View Mall when I was 12. Um, and recognizing like, just having, like, what I wore then I couldn't be that excited about because there just was so little for me.

Um, but I've grown up in a time where like, the older I've gotten from 12 year old me to 34 year old me, like the options are more plentiful every year, it feels like, for most, for the most part, in terms of who's making things in my size. Um, and that's a privilege too, right? ‘Cause I'm a plus sized person who can fit into and especially in, you know, most of my life from 12 to 34, could fit into smaller plus size stuff. Um, so I know that it was just like available to me in ways that it is not available to people who wear larger plus sizes and continues to not be available to folks who wear larger plus sizes.

So I, in some ways it's gotten better, but there's two other like body, like folks don't make things for me, kind of things that relate a lot to like me not being able to achieve the style I want, and that relates to my feet and my long torso. Or I guess, like let's reframe: it’s not my feet that are the problem or my long torso that's the problem, it is these brands who refuse to make things for me, I mean, I want to give them my money, right, but I'm just not able to. There's a real lack of like, large, wide-width shoes in styles that I like. Birkenstock is my, you know, I go so hard for Birkenstock those, oh—those motherfuckers—

SB: All the limited edition styles, all the best styles, not wide-width at all.

CP: Not in the wide width, no! And it's like, they, they market to me, they send me those emails. I click on them every time, like, is this the time you're going to have this available in the wider width? No. Um, and it's just infuriating. And also like, I think I would wear a lot more, um, jumpsuits and I think I could have really just, oh, I really love the look of a one piece swimsuit, but my torso, like a long, long torso coupled with some tummy is just like, it is so rare for me to find something that fits my torso length

And that, I mean, both of those things I've just described, I'm not alone in. Like those things. I, those two kind of pain points come up so frequently, uh, with other plus size folks that I am in conversation with, you know? So I hope that in the future those things will change, but yeah, I just, I need more money, and then I need people to be making some, some cool, cool supportive wide-width shoes and also some, some, one piece swimsuits for a long-torsoed person like myself. And then maybe, maybe then I would get closer. I don't know if I'll ever be a hundred percent, but it feels like it would be a lot closer to it. 

SB: Or like exploration, like full sense of exploration would be possible. Yeah.

CP: I think that's a great point because it's like, it's not as if we want or need all the things, but it's like, we should have the opportunity to at least try them out. 

SB: And there are people who, who can do that, and like, figure out how to make clothing for themselves or have access to that. I also think about this double standard of like, being fat, like the presentation and needing to look a certain way. And so then you do have to put a lot of money into that, or you, or you prioritize that, and that's not a bad thing either. I will say like my weird brain narrative is that style or like finding your true sense of style is relegated to and for other people, specifically because of their body and wealth status. So that's like my baggage that I'm bringing with this conversation.

CP: And like, how could that not be where your mind goes, given what, you know, life for us around fashion has been like for forever, you know? 

SB: And it's easier for us than so many others. 

CP: Yeah. So it's both-and. It doesn't mean that like, we haven't struggled with this, but just recognizing that like, um, there are folks who struggle much, much more with this as well. Yeah. It's hard, but I mean, it is fun to think about how our styles have evolved since we were younger and how, you know, some options have, um, increased since we were, you know, adolescents. Um, and, and, and also with that Saraya, maybe to think about how, when we are, you know, in 20 years, what style will be like then and what things we will have access to that we, that we still don't have access to yet.

SB: Oh, rich bitch status, right? 

CP: Yas. Or, things being made, you know what I mean? Like maybe I'll get more money, right? Um, but like maybe I just, I, I, for all the things I get mad about in terms of like, where things are going with fashion—which actually ties in really well to, we're gonna talk about in the Dirt and Discourse—I do also see like tangible steps being made so, so, so slowly, but like more and more brands who—like Lane Bryant for instance recently was just like, yeah, we're going to go up to, I think a 7XL now. They had for years said they would never go above a 26, 28, and here they are, those larger sizes. So I do see some moves being made. That makes me think it is likely that in, you know, 15, 20 years when we're looking back, we'll be able to, to note the developments that have happened, you know, from now to then.

SB: Yeah. And I mean, so much of this is personal style, right? And which gets me so excited for us to listen to our interview or share our interview, because that's such a hallmark of what we talk about with Paxyshia. 

CP: Truly. And hey, one quick note, before we share the interview, um, from what we talk about, you might notice that it was recorded a few months ago before Cake reopened for the summer, and before Paxyshia was officially promoted to assistant manager. Uh, so I just wanted to share that as a note, before we get into this great conversation.

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CP: Paxyshia, we're so happy you're with us.

Paxyshia Yang: Yay! Me too!

CP: Okay. So we're going to start out how we always do: what is your story as a matter of fat? 

PY: Um, I think for me, um, being fat has just, it's always been like, um, a central identity of who I’ve always been and that's kind of shaped me into being the person that I am. Um, I also think that it's like growing up in an Asian household, I wasn't necessarily, um—though I was born and raised in Minnesota, I wasn't introduced to white people a lot. Um, and I think when people think of Minnesota, they immediately think of that, but that's just like, totally not what I was ever a part of.

Um, I like, went to public school in St. Paul for, um, like 11 years of my life. So the first time I really like, was introduced to like, thin white bodies was when I was in the fourth grade, and I think that really changed my perspective. But up until I was maybe 10, I was just aware that like, I was just another kid. Like it, it didn't really matter to me. And I think, um, I didn't get a lot of, um, comments about my body as well until I started, um, getting into those more pubescent, um, teenage years, um, when that's, when, like I started like gaining weight and like acne became a thing, and it was like, oh, you need to find someone who's going to love you for the rest of your life.

And it was just like, okay, there's like a lot of things about me right now that like, I need to focus on, but I don't know which one. And I think like, body image was just the one thing that was always like, really tapped into, especially when I like, just kept gaining weight. Um, and it was like, confusing for me to navigate around, but I think, um, it also made me stronger in a way and like give less—can I swear on here? 

CP: Yes. Yes. 

PY: Like give less of a shit um, growing up and I, like, it was always like, “Oh, you should wear what's flattering”. Like, it was embarrassing if I was wearing what anyone else that was thin was wearing. Um, and I think for me that really just like, shifted my perspective into like, well—and maybe on top of that, I'm just like a stubborn person.

So I was like, “Well, I'm not gonna let anybody tell me anything. Uh, doesn't matter what size I am. Like, why does that matter?” So I just, I just like, try to let it go as much. I mean, of course, like, as a child, that really like, beats you up a little bit, but I think like for the most part, it really like, made me realize, like, this is what makes me different. Um, unfortunately it, it like, really matters to people. But, um, for me, like as long as like, I'm a nice person and I'm continuously being kind, without like asking for anything incredibly huge back, like, I feel like I'm going to be okay in the world.

It didn't matter until I was like, going into like, uh, white public schools that it really became like a conflict of like, “oh, she's also fat on top of being Asian.” So, and then it became like, “oh, so she's really smart, but she's fat.” And it wasn't like, I, I, it was typical of, um, an Asian girl to be fat. Like that was the, that's the stereotype, I think even now as an adult, is that like, if an Asian girl isn't skinny that like, it, it, uh, it lessens who she is and, um, I think that really messed me up.

Like it also just like, shaped me into, into who I wanted to be growing up that I didn't want that to affect, um, how kind I was to people and like how I treated other people, because like I’d like, I never wanted to be treated like that. So like, why should I let that affect me? Allowing people to be themselves, like, growing up fat, that really was just like, as I was growing up, I wish people would have just allowed me to like the things I like without, um, throwing what my body looks like into it, or like what I looked like in general. Um, that just seems like such a huge part for, for a lot of people. I think even now, um, like, especially my older relatives, they think that like, because I look a certain way, I won't be able to go um, farther and longer, um, just because I look a certain way and I, I feel like if I'm able to treat people just as people, to just be who they are without it being about what they look like, like that's the only—that's as far as they can go is like, that's the top tier most important thing in the world then, like, it won't, it won't matter so much. And I feel like it makes a difference to other people as well, when they, they feel like they're the worth of who they are lies within themselves and how they treat people versus how they look like and how many likes they can get. 

SB: So you mentioned that whether it be, you know, your family members or other people, there is this social stigma for looking a type of way, or having a type of identity. Um, you mentioned you were stubborn earlier and I wonder how much that feeds into your sense of fashion. Because you have like, in my opinion, an exquisite sense of fashion. You're always trying new things. Would you mind sharing a little bit with us about what that journey was like, and then figuring out what your look is and your sense of fashion, knowing that a lot of people might have thoughts or opinions about that? 

PY: Yeah! Um, so yeah, I mentioned I was stubborn and I think like, I've always been that way. Um, maybe, I don't know. I always say that it's because I was born a Sagittarius, but I, I know I can't completely just blame it on that. Um, when I was younger, I remember like, um, my mom would, my mom would tell me like, “Oh, you're so gonna regret wearing that.” And I think like, as a parent, or even as just like an adult, you look back and you think, “Oh my god, what was I thinking when I wore that?” You know? Um, so my mom was like, “You're going to really regret wearing that.” And I remember being like 14 thinking like, “No, I'm never going to let that happen to me because like, I feel really cool right now. Like I feel great and I'm wearing something that I love.” And so like, I just forced myself to stick with that because like, like, what else am I supposed to do? Just go to like, my sweatpants all the time? Like, no, I don't feel happy in that. Like, I feel happy in something that I wore. And like, now that I think about it, like, yeah, of course I look kind of goofy, but also I was 14 and like, I felt good.

Like ,that's the most that, like, you can really ask of a, like a kid really at that age. And so like, I think that's really stuck with me this whole time. And I think some people will be like, even to this day, people will be like, “Oh, that's a very interesting, um, outfit you're wearing.” And it's like, yeah, it probably is, and I feel really good. Like, and, and I think it's always just so funny when people are like, “Well, aren't you wearing that?” And it's like, yeah, I really am just wearing this. Um, and I think it's, um, I think it's made me just like, appreciate clothes more. Um, and I think like now, um, it's, it’s—I've always tried to follow like trends. And so when I was younger, like the whole like Disney Channel thing was really huge. So I like, watched Disney Channel, like these movies and shows and would like try to replicate these outfits. And now I think, I think even now it's like the same thing where you, you see like maybe celebrities wearing it, or even people that you, um, like influencers wearing it, and you think like, “Oh, this is really cool. Like, I want to know what it looks like on my body.” And that's how I'll just like, kind of translate it to myself. Like if I like something, I'll just put it on, and like, if it gives off the same vibe, like then, like it works, you know?

Um, I'm not too picky. And to this day, I really don't know what I would even call my style because I feel like I could go a lot of different ways, and I often do. I feel like my, my style is like, very casual in a sense, and like comfortable, where like, I can like walk around in this and like, feel comfortable. I never like forced myself to wear things that like, are too uncomfortable. Um, like I'm not that big of a fan of heels. Like if I'm wearing heels, they're like, no higher than two inches. If like, if I'm wearing, um, boots, like I, I have to make sure that they're not going to slip and slide around. Like, I, I'm very like, um, I'm very aware of, um, the comfort I'm going to be in and like, um, I think that's like a big part of the way I dress. Um, I guess I would consider myself like trendy, like with the times and stuff. 

CP: I think we definitely consider you as trendy, Paxyshia. I'm like, I don't think there's any way to not consider you as trendy and like, might I say even like a little fashion-forward.

PY: Oh, thank you. Um, I've never thought of myself as too fashion-forward actually. Um, I feel like it's always like, um, and I think I kind of forced myself to like think outside the box a little bit, yeah. To like really like wear prints or like consider different silhouettes or something, um, or different textures or something. But, um, yeah. I, like, I know that a lot of people's like some people like really stick to like an, a whole eighties look or something, you know, but I feel like I'm kind of all over the place and like, I really appreciate that about fashion. Um, so like, I'm very honored to be able to like, have that tie in to like what I wear from day to day.

Um, but I think like being stubborn has also made me just like, feel like I can be fashion-forward and not have to think too much about it. I also think that, um, that just like being inside my own head like that and like really trusting myself that like, that's what it is. It's like, it's made—my stubbornness has made me trust myself more. And to know that like what I'm doing and like hearing, like hearing positive compliments and feedback for myself is just like reassurance for me knowing that like, the way I trust myself, other people, other people see that as well. And I, um, I often will get like, um, comments of people saying like, not like, um, to me about a certain outfit, but like in general, they'll say like, “You're really wearing that dress.”

Like it's never like that dresses wearing you, you know? And even my hairdresser was like, “You never let your hair where you, you always wear your hair.” And I was like, “Thank you. That makes me feel like really reassured.” And I think like it's crossed over in a lot of my life. That's like, I, I like hold that confidence to, um, to really wear what I want to wear. And, um, I think I get to thank my stubbornness for that. Um, as far as back when I was 14 years old, 

CP: Um, this is all so great. And like, one of my favorite things about interviewing folks for this podcast is like, Paxyshia, we’re close, and we've never talked this much about your style before, and I'm just like, loving hearing this from your perspective. Um, and it is true. Like you really like when you wear these things. And I maybe, like, I think something else that I notice is that you are not afraid to try different things. And like, you're not afraid to like, play with bold pieces. Um, and you really have a, such an appreciation for like a garment, like, oh, this like, well, you know, we'll be talking about like this pair of pants or whatever, like, oh, and the way that you think about even just like a garment is so different. Um, and I it's just like, it's, that's just part of how you have this incredible style. 

PY: Oh, thank you! Um, I like, I think, like, I, I've always kind of done that, but I think like when I, I went to school for it, um, when I, like, when I started my courses, um, at Minneapolis College for Apparel Technologies, I like, really started to appreciate like what an outfit looks like and how it's created, and I think that really just like fed into, into all that stuff. So like, I, I was really able to like, appreciate the things that I liked and the things that I didn't like and like realize how it was all so constructed. Um, but yeah, I, I really, I really do just appreciate garments. Like they're just real good. And I, like, I really appreciate the people who are able to sew them together and stuff. 

CP: You do! And like you have an eye for it in a way that I don't. And I think some of that is probably just who you are, but also because of the training and education, you know, 

PY: Thank you. Um, yeah, and I, I actually like started those courses knowing nothing. Like, I didn't know what a dart was. Like, I, like, I knew that like there were lines coming out of dresses sometimes, you know, like on your dress, but I didn't even know those were called darts. Um, I didn't know what a princess seam was, as silly as that sounds, like I've probably worn so many princess seam type dresses, and I didn't know what a princess seam was. I had never sewed in my life before. I like, I'd never had touched. I think I touched a sewing machine once and the line was completely crooked, but I was still proud of it. Um, but it was like, it was like, very challenging ‘cause I didn't know any of these things. I didn't know how to put a garment together. I didn't know they were called patterns. I was like sitting in those classes, like so confused. Um, but like being able to learn about that and from the professors there, they were like, so knowledgeable about so many things and I was able to really like learn and take a lot of that in.

And um, I’m really appreciative for it because now I can look at items and think like, “Oh, this is a weird way of sewing it.” Um, and it also makes me really appreciate like well-made garments. Um, like when you get things from, uh, brands that are fast fashion, you can, you can definitely tell, um, from like the fabric to the sewing methods that they use, like, you can really tell what they are, um, and like how they were made.

Um, and I just like, I, I can just appreciate them so much more. And I, I think that also, like I try to reflect that as much as I can, um, into my, into my outfits and stuff. It is hard because as a fat person, you don't get a lot of, um, options where um, where the garments are good. Um, and like really well-made. So I, when I find something and come across something, it like, it's very special and I like try to take as like, incredible care of it because it just, like, it means so much to me to have something so great.

And I wish, um, I wish though those items weren't always so expensive because someone like me who can't afford just like, a $300 blazer out of nowhere, like it, like, I, I really can't push that. So I like, sometimes I just pray for things at Cake to come through, but also like also, like, I can appreciate it from afar sometimes, but, um, yeah, like it's just like, I appreciate it, and I understand the money and the finances that go behind, um, finding the correct fabric, making sure that it's sustainable and, um, being able to pay your workers well to create these things. But at the same time, it's, it's just. It's not available for fat people who can't afford those things. So, um, I have a love, a whole love-hate relationship with that, but I understand it, but I don't love it.

SB: I would love to hear more about Cake, right? So like we get to hear Cat's perspective all the time. You're a core part of Cake as well. What's it like for you to be, um, you know, influencing the Twin Cities fat community in this way, or just to be such a part of something so important to us on the podcast, but to the community as well?

PY: It's actually pretty wild to think about. Um, when I saw like, “core part of Cake,” I was kind of like, wow, like I really am. And I know like Cat always tells me, like, “You're so important here.” And the Cat always, it's not like I forget about it. You know? Like I know that right now we're working as a, a two-person, um, team right now, um, I know that my job there is important to get clothes out there and to be able to like really spend time within the fat community. Um, but sometimes, you know, like sometimes I do kind of forget. Like sometimes I'm just like, “Oh yeah, I work here and that's it. But like, truthfully, um, it's so great to be able to work at a place like Cake, um, with the, with the boss, not to like, um, brag about my boss, but like—and I was bragging about this the other days of my brother as well. It was just like, I know that I have a great boss who would be supportive of me, whether I left or I stayed. Um, and that she would give me more opportunities if they, um, if they come by. So I'm very thankful for that, and I'm also thankful for the people who shop with us. Um, you know, they'll, they'll ask me for, for style tips or what they, what I think something looks like, or, you know, ask for, um, like affirmations if they are in the shop or something, and it's nice to be able to be a part of tha. Because like, I understand them, like I'm right there, and I, I understand that. Um, and it's also just incredible to be able to know that like I'm selling these items to people and, um, they're coming from a place of, um, sustainability and, um, that we're like, we're helping out in that sense. Um, and it’s, it really, really touches my heart to be able to give that place to someone and be a part of that to give it to someone because, um, I didn't have that growing up. And I think even, uh, just as I was starting to get into like the thrifting game, I, it was really hard for me to go to, um, like Goodwills or just regular thrift shops and like, look for things in my size.

Um, and a lot of people, when I first started, they'd be like, “How did you find these outfits?” Um, or like, “How do you find good pieces?” And I would just have to be like, you sit there and you look through every single thing that's like in your general size range. And for, um, for a long time, I feel like there wasn't, there wasn't a lot at all. I, I could spend like maybe 20 minutes looking through like the 1X and 2X stuff and then that was it. Whereas like, um, like a sister or a cousin of mine could like go and like look through things for like a long time without like, having that.

And I feel like, um, and I feel—well, one thing that Cat said to me, um, when I first started working there is that, “You get to be picky about the things that you like now, because there's a lot of things that we can choose from,” especially from Cake, you have so many options and so many sizes that like you can test out different brands. “You can, um, you see a lot of different styles and you get to be kind of picky about it now.” And so I, like, I always remind myself of that now. Like I don't have to settle for the weird t-shirt that I don't really love, but like, will fit me, you know? I get to, like, I get to like really choose something I love.

And like, um, I think when a lot of people come by the shop, um, before pandemic, before the pandemic, they would say like, “Oh, so you really get the first pick of everything”. And it was kind of like, yeah, I really do get the first pick of everything. And it's really, it's really nice, but it's also like, so great to see something like, really wonderful that I think would look great on somebody else and be able to like, put that out for people and know that someone's going to love that.

Um, and uh, to just like pick up a piece and say like, “Oh, I think someone's gonna really love this. And like, I know it's going to go fast.” It's nice to be able to, um, become, become more familiar with different brands. So I can say like, “Oh, this, this fits kind of small, but this brand might do you better.” And like, to be able to give those options to other people who are having a hard time shopping at all, um, it's really, it's really heartwarming for me to be able to offer any of that to anyone. Um, and before it was like giving advice to thin people is kind of like, well, you get your, your, your pick from anywhere like you could, you could walk in anywhere and find anything. So being able to really like, um, get specific with, um, the fat community, um, especially in the Twin Cities, when they come in and ask for, um, a suggestion on a brand or how this brand fits, I can, like, I can tell them with confidence.

Being able to hear other people's opinions on things, I can relay that to other customers as well. And I feel like that, that's really like a crucial part, um, kind of like telephoning things to other folks. Um, and, and to just let them know. So it's, it's, I'm very honored to be a part of the fat community and doing that. Especially, um, especially growing up since I didn't have anything like that and nothing loved that was like really heard. Um, so to be able to really be a part of something that's so, that's still so new in the world, um, is really nice and really cool. And I'm really appreciative that I went back to school and Cat reached out to me and asked me if I wanted to, um, if the internship was something that I would wanna do. And I said, yes. So I'm very, I'm very happy about all that. And I'm happy about my little Gretchen Wieners costume as well, because that really started it all. 

CP: I was gonnasay, are we going to tell the people like your whole history with Cake? Because really, it started with Gretchen Wieners. (Laughs)

PY: Yeah. It really did. I, um, so I originally—and I was talking about this on my Earth Day posts because, um, Earth Day was just like, I don't really, I guess I, I've never really thought of, um, Earth Day as a huge holiday, but I think working at Cake it’s really like, opened my eyes to sustainability and what we're able to do there.

So, um, I made a post on Earth Day, 2021 and said like, um, “I'm looking back at my journey at Cake. I've been very honored to work there and be a part of this sustainable fat community.” Um, and I had gone, uh, I think as far back as the, the fashion show, but it went farther than that. It went back to, um, was it the first? The first Halloween?

CP: Okay. So our very first, our first fall, this was like way back. I think this was October, 2017. So like, Cake had been around as a brick-and-mortar for like a month and we did our first Annual Costume Contest and you submitted this incredible Gretchen Wieners costume. Um, and I didn't know you at all before that. I don't think, um, and you won by like you just, I mean, it was like, there's like a voting process and it was like, okay, you clearly have won just like leaps and bounds. And then I think you got a, we—store credit was part of your prize. And I remember the day you came in, um, to buy stuff with your store credit. And then shortly after, like maybe the next spring we did this Fat Festival Fashion event for Fashion Week Minnesota, right? And then, you were one of our models for that. 

PY: Yeah. Actually, you know what? Okay. I think it goes one step further back then. Because I had, um, before you guys, before Cake had a brick and mortar, I'm pretty sure you, um, did a yeah.

CP: The thing at Surly?

PY: Um, uh, and there was a panel there and I remember, I remember seeing it was like, I sa—what really caught my eye was, plus-sized thrift, secondhand, um, whatever, but there was like plus size there and I went, okay, I really want to go to this thing it's for specifically for plus size people. Um, so I want to go and I want to thrift things. So I took my cousin with me and we went, and it was, I think, in collaboration with ARTS? 

CP: Yes, exactly. 

SB: Um, so I, so I went and, um, I remember going there and I had got this really cool, okay. I remember there were two things that I got, they were really cool. I got this, um, like lacey corset, um, or no, no, it was like a silky corset, that I got. And then also I got these, um—oh no, I gotta, I gotta, was a, it was a checkered black and white blazer. And I was thinking already because I was already wearing my checkered black and white pants. And I went, “This would be really cool. They don't look exactly alike, but they look alike enough that they would look like it would look like a set.”

So I bought that blazer and I was like, I was so ecstatic about it. And we stuck around and watched the, um, and listened to the panel for a little bit. But then, um, I started following y'all and, um, I started following Cake, and then that's how I heard about the Halloween contest. And I went, "Okay, I'm going to submit something, because $50 store credit would be really cool. I had a great time at the, at the event and I, I could find something, so I'm gonna, I'm gonna, I'm going to do it.” And then I ended up winning. I asked like all my buddies and I was like, “Can you guys please go vote for me?”

CP: And they did, and they did!

PY: And they did! And I was so happy about that. So, yeah. Um, I went in, I got my store credit and then, and, um, back then I was a lot, I was a lot more poor than I am now. So I went, I was like, checking out all the prices and I kept thinking like, “Oh, I don't know if I could afford coming here all the time, but it's definitely cool, and I want to come back, but I don't know if I could like, afford coming here all the time.” So after a while, I don't think I had come back to the shop also. I think I had just started driving, so I didn't have like, a steady car to drive in all the time. But, um, I, I did the,  I did Gretchen Wieners. I won, it was awesome. It was amazing. And then you, and then Cat asked me to come back for the fashion show. And so I did do that, and that's when I had started going back to school. So I was in the, I was in the Minneapolis area a little bit more. Um, so I think I had actually just started school that semester, too. 

CP: That makes sense. Yeah. And it was less of like a runway show and more of like, we did like, a photoshoot and then we had like, kind of live models for this like, fashion festival kind of shopping event as part of Fashion Week Minnesota. And then that summer you were an intern and you were an intern two summers in a row. And then I guess now we're kind of fast forwarding, but then, you are the most recent member of the team, but now in pandemic life, you are the only other member of the team besides me. We are a fierce team of two. 

PY: Yeah! And I think, um, I think those internships were just like, so much fun. And I was so happy to also be a part of like Fat Splash and see all those things come, come together and like sharing those photos of Fat Splash was just like it, I feel like it's always amazing when we get to share photos of Fat Splash.

CP: So many people like, love it so much. And the first year was really quite small. And you and the intern team that first year, really like, I mean, there's no way, like I could have done that. Like, it was only possible because of the whole team. 

PY: I didn't get to work a whole lot with, uh, with that intern team because we had, we all had like little separate jobs to do so we weren't, we weren't collaborating a whole bunch, but we did, uh, for the second year I did the internship and that was a lot of fun to, um, being able to create content for the Cake, um, the Cake Instagram wall and stuff, and it was a lot of fun. But I really, I really appreciated being able to do all that. And I basically get to do that now, like create content for the stories and stuff. So, um, it really like, got me ready for that um, yeah, I really enjoyed being an intern at Cake. I would totally advise anyone who's in school if they want to, not to pump my own shop, but if, when we come back with internships, I really enjoyed working as an intern there. So I don't know, for me, I felt like it was a pretty cool deal and to be a part of that. And, um, it gave me a little taste of what working at Cake was like. And so when I came on to actually work, it was really nice. And, um, to—and for, for folks to already know me and say like, “Oh, I have seen you on Instagram and stuff.” And so I was like, “Oh cool. It's already like I'm a part of the family.” It isn’t, there wasn't anything like, too sudden about it. So that was cool. 

CP: Yeah!

SB: So Paxyshia, what is bringing you joy lately? Personally, professionally, both, something else, we’d love to hear it. 

PY: Um, well, professionally I think what's bringing me joy right now is, um, the fact that, um, I think I can call myself an influencer of sorts. Um, not something that I'm like, incredibly pushing hard about, but, um, I think like, being able to just share stuff on Instagram is really cool. And being able to see people, um, relate or even be like, inspired by my outfits is really cool. Um, I think that'll always kind of bring me joy, um, especially because I've been, like, on social media as like a, as someone who has sort of a following, um, to have, um, it brings me a lot of joy when people tell me that I've inspired them or help them, uh, be more confident. Um, so that's always cool on a professional level. Um, and I think personally right now, um, it would be my cat and, um, romance books, romance novels.

CP: Yes, I knew we were going there!

PY: I never like, we've had family dogs, but I've never had like, a pet of my own. Um, so, uh, last summer there was a cat that a, had a litter in my neighbor's barn and I was kind of helping take care of them. And I kept thinking like, “Oh, they're very cute, but I don't think I could spend time with them or anything”, but then I got real attached to my cat and, um, I just had to take her home and, um, I helped rehome the rest of her siblings and her mom, but like, she just brings me so much joy, um, like every day. And I, I swear to god I could leave the house for like, not even two minutes and feel like I miss my cat already. And, um, she's just so sweet and awesome. And, um, she's just my little angel and I feel like in the life of the pandemic, like she really came at a, a really wonderful time for me. So I was able to be at home and be with her, but also, um, like she's really just like, lifted my spirits a whole bunch and like, given me a reason to like, just enjoy every day. Um, it's always something new with her, so she'll be one in August and it'll be a whole year that I've had her in October. So that's really nice. Um, and I, I never thought I'd be a cat person, but here I am, like loving my cat more than anything in the whole wide world. 

CP: You are a very dedicated cat mom. Like Zuko is just like, treated like a true princess.

PY: Oh yeah. I know. And I, my family is always telling me I have to stop buying her, um, like toys and stuff, especially when she's just happy with like, a ball of paper, but I just can't stop it. And I like, want to buy her little outfits too, but I don't want to force anything on her, but like also, I, I kind of want her to wear like a little tutu or something. ‘Cause my, my sister says she's like a little ballerina walking around the house. I don't know. There's like, there's like so many levels to this. Like I want to be a mother who is freeing, but also, um, that dress just looks so darn cute when I’m at with shop. So it's push and pull. 

SB: Yeah. Where can people find you in Zuko? Like what are the handles? What are the social media sites that they should be looking at? 

PY: Um, so my social media site is, uh, on the Instagram is just my first name, @Paxyshia. Um, and then Zuko is, um, @ZukoTheAngel. And she's, um, she's got quite the following, less than 500, but she's, she's working on there. We share, and I share, um, I have her pose with my books, the ones that I'm reading and we'll share what we're reading. Um, we call us “The Paxuko Book Club.” (Cat and Saraya laugh) Um, yeah. And, um, so she just, uh, she never, she doesn't read along with me because of course she's a cat, but she takes a little photos and it's much cuter that way, um, since I don't have like an official book, um, Instagram, um, and I don't plan to start one. I don't think I'm like that, I think, I think reading right now is just really fun for me. Growing up I wasn't much of a reader, so, um, it's just really fun to be reading for fun. And, um, I'm, I'm going through books so quickly.

CP: You are flying through books! Um, it is like, yeah, I've been lucky to read some of the same ones. We can like, chat about them and that's been really fun. It's also so nice to just like work right down the building from a bookshop, you know?

PY: Yeah. It really is. Um, last month I was, um, I had read a total of seven books. But I feel like I probably could have read at least 10, but I didn't plan accordingly. And I didn't think I would read through so many books so fast. Um, so I ended up having to wait for books. So I won't be so foolish this May. Um, so hopefully I'm able to, um, achieve my goal. And so I gave myself a little goal of just 20 books this year to read because I've never been a reader, but it's, it's becoming apparent that I am a, I'm actually a very avid reader.

CP: You’ve probably already flown through that goal. 

PY: Um, I think I'm, I read through like, 17 now at this point. So I'm very close to that goal, but it's nice to like, set a small goal like that and reach it and know that I'm enjoying myself doing it and it doesn't feel like a job or something. So, um, yeah, cause someone asked me to start a book club and I went, “I don't think I could really set up a book club. I don't want to ask you guys questions and I don't, I don't want, I don't want to psychoanalyze everything. I just want to enjoy a good book right now and, and yearn and pine a little bit. And that's about it.” 

CP: We are so excited to share you, and then also you, Zuko’s page, which also has all your books on it, um, with our audience we'll of course take you, um, and put that in our show notes. So folks can find you. 

PY: Awesome. That’s so exciting. 

CP: Thanks for telling your story—

CP + SB: —as a matter of fat!

[MUSIC FADES IN AND OUT]

SB: What an amazing interview. And of course, you know, we have some thoughts, we have some opinions, so we want to debrief with y'all for a little bit. So first and foremost, I love that like, when we talk about a really specific Midwestern perspective, on the show and otherwise, like a very certain stereotype of who exists in the Midwest comes to mind. And it was just so great to hear that you can grow up in the Midwest and that doesn't necessarily mean you grow up in whiteness. I think that needs to be shared widely and prevalently, that whiteness does not represent the Midwest exclusively. So, I also—

CP: —Hard agree.  

SB: Hard agree. And then specifically in this conversation, like how much thinness in whiteness is interrelated and inexorably linked, right?

CP: Yeah, I'm so happy that Paxyshia brought those things forward. And, you know, just like, uh, like, uh, it kind of zooming out a little bit, like, like I alluded to in the interview, you know, Saraya, I know you don't often have conversations with Paxyshia, but I, she's someone I talked to like every other day and just it's this happens all the time with these interviews. It's like, we get to hear so much from people, um, and hear more about their backgrounds than we have as just like, friends or coworkers or whatever. So, um, yeah, that is not, that is related to this, and also just related to everything that was touched on. It's really cool. Um, to hear the intricacies of people's backgrounds and stories, even if they are people that we know and love.

SB: And just how nice she is, right? “As long as I'm a kind person like the world is going to be here.” I was like more of that, please!

CP: Oh I know, so sweet. And actually it was, I had never like, heard Paxyshia say it so explicitly before that, like kindness is a guiding principle for her. Uh, and so beautiful that like, that is exactly what I see her exhibiting in everyday life as a human and as a coworker. And it was just so special to hear her highlight that, that like, kindness piece throughout her story. 

SB: I mean, I have lots of other things that stood out to me. Um, do you want me to keep running through them? 

CP: Yeah! Yes, yes. 

SB: Okay. So something that came out, it wasn't like specifically touched on in the conversation, but this idea of like generational concern. I think it has come up in other episodes, things we've talked about, maybe y'all have talked about it too. It's just like, parents feeling the type of way. Like, “Why are you going to dress like that? You can't look like that. That will hurt your chances that will make you, you know, less like less advantageous, uh, a less advantageous way to go through the world.” Right? Like if you pick a bold look or a specific look, and it's so interesting, because I do want to say without being a parent, myself, that that is rooted in concern.

CP: Yeah!

SB: Like, wanting your children to live the best lives, but defining that best life by your experience and not the future that they're living in, too. Uh, I just, this is something I know you and I have talked about Cat, maybe not on the podcast, but this idea of feeling happy and like happiness being something that we are concerned with and wanting for ourselves. And like, how much was that an option for previous generations? And in this instance, a look, putting together some looks, understanding what you like, what you enjoy as like, serving that joy and happiness. 

CP: Oh, my gosh, this is like taking a philosophical turn here. Um, yeah, Saraya we do talk about that, like—yeah how happiness, or like wanting to pursue happiness or believing that we can be happy as people is such, um, a big part of like our lives and our generations, like perspectives, I think, but how that just feels so different, um, from when our parents talk. And we're totally—this is not related to  Paxyshia’s parents necessarily, right? ‘Cause we don't know, we don't know how they feel about this, but back to what you were saying. Like it's truly, it's like love and like protection, which, you know, that really motivates I think parents saying, ”Oh, I, that's probably not going to be a good idea to do that or to wear that.” Um, but to your point, like for, things have—things are changing, right? And so it's like maybe, yeah, someone will think this or that of me if I wear this, but also like, this is who I am and this is what makes me happy. Um, and I just love this like, I'm imagining like the little, you know, a young Paxyshia, her internal resolve to be like, “No, I'm gonna wear this!” (Laughs)

SB: So cute.

CP: Gotta love a stubborn gal. And I just have to believe that, like that mentality has really had a, you know, impacted greatly in the most positive way how she, how her style is today, but also just like who she is, as a person, you know?

SB: Yeah. Also just like, the most Midwestern thing. “Isn't that an interesting outfit?” Interesting. Like yeah, it really is! So cute. I love it. Um, I also am just impressed with her appreciation for garments like pre- and post-education. Well, first of all, like she hurt like outfit building is just a whole vibe. She was like, “Does this vibe match the vibe that I liked in this?” I'm like, whoa, what an ingenious way to think of something. Maybe everybody else knows how to do that. But for me, I was like, “Oh no, it's an equation. You have to have this color shirt and this color pants and this—” No, it's like, what is the feel of it? Like approaching it from that is just so smart. And, um, I also just wanted to put out there that I, I don't know what a princess seam is. Should I know what a princess seam is? Do you know? 

CP: Yeah, it’s like that seam, it's like, um, you know, what darts are those like little ones on the bust? A princess seam is like, a long seam that comes from like your neck—or maybe even under the arms sometimes—and kind of comes down the bust to like, make a garment be a little bit more fitted to you. But like, unlike Paxyshia, I have zero training in this. All I know is what I know from Google. So I'm sure she could have explained it much better than I just did. 

SB: Well. I mean, I'm, I'm following, I'm tracking. And also Google is my friend too. But I, yeah, I just, I also, okay. Can we add her Halloween photo? In some capacity?

CP: Sure! Yeah, I'll link to it. Yeah. And also like, does everybody know who Gretchen Wieners is? 

SB: I dunno, we shouldn't say that. So Mean Girls, the phenomenal, um, hit of the century, Mean Girls, there's a character named Gretchen Wieners. Who, how would you describe her style? 

CP: She's kind of preppy, maybe

SB: Maybe like Clueless-esque. 

CP: Yes. Oh yes. You can make that parallel for sure. Yeah.

SB: And then maybe we have to describe what Clueless-esque means. No. Okay. But anyways, very preppy. Um, and it just, like a great, a great moment. And you'll see if you go check out the photos, you can, you can reference what that looks like.

CP: It was just so cute to see like a plus size person in a little Gretchen Weiners outfit. And it was not like, it wasn't super elaborate. It was just like finding this outfit that like, she totally would have wore, um, and wearing it. And so, yeah, that's, that was, that was so fun and yeah, my introduction to Paxyshia and her, I guess, second introduction to the shop.

SB: She's so sweet, she's such a delight. I'm here for her. I'm here for Zuko. I'm here for all of it.

CP: Oh, same, same, same. I just like, what an awesome person to get to spend time with, at work all the time and to chat romance novels with, and to hear about all the cute cat stuff. Oh my goodness. Also, um, since the, our interview, Zuko had a birthday and Paxyshia threw a first birthday party for Zuko and they wore coordinating outfits. She did put Zuko and a little dress and it was so—I will also link to, um, maybe a one of her photos from that too. Cause I think that you all would just love to see it!

SB: I cannot, I cannot, I will say she is the type of influencer I love and stan for and can't wait to see what she does next. 

CP: Same, same, same! And next up, we're going to get into, different kinds of influencers? 

SB: Yeah we are, in the—

CP + SB: —Dirt and Discourse!

[THEME MUSIC FADES IN AND OUT]

CP: It's time for the Dirt and Discourse. This is where we dive into the excitement and discomfort around relevant pop and cultural happenings. This Dirt and Discourse centers around influencers and how they are indicative of the direction of body positivity and fat liberation. And specifically, we want to share some super sleuthing that we did on this sort of chic—but very cringe—brand event and tie it back to the #FightForInclusivity boycott that Saucye West has been championing.

SB: So there's a brand called BloomChic that partnered with some fashion influencers to host a beautiful dinner, filled with like many of the who's-who of plus size social media and modeling. So, I mean, it's just some plus size folks seemingly living their best lives. 

CP: Give us the names, you always tell us the names, Saraya! Who are the names? Who was there?

SB: Yeah. I have to keep up with my brand, right. So we had Tess Holiday. We have, um, Alex LaRosa, Kelly Brown, Jasmine J, I saw a photo with Gianluca Russo at some point. Um, who else did you see in this?

CP: Oh, many more. Um, Natalie. And is it LaTisha? LaTisha Thomas.

SB: Yeah, Nadia Aboulhosn, and—I'm blowing these names. Sorry, y’all. Sorry to these people.

CP: Sorry to them.

SB: Like, they are all over social media. I follow a number of them. 

CP: These are pretty known people, which also, shame on us for not knowing their last names. These are known folks. 

SB: Truly. I mean, for me to even know about this is a big deal because I kept seeing things pop up. I'm like, “Who are all these good people? Why are they all hanging out together?”

CP: Yeah, you mentioned this to me!

SB: Yeah, right. Um, well and why is it Dirt and Discourse worthy? Like, people having a dinner? Yes, it's, COVID, that's not the reason we're talking about this.

CP: But also, as a very side note, I just, when you were in a space where everyone, all of the service workers are wearing masks and no one there in attendance is wearing masks, it just, it, it feels a little bit gross, though that is a very small grievance compared to where, where we're going with this.

SB: My face literally became the emoji where it's just like all teeth and like awkward, like awkward, cringy as well. It's also cringy-er because BloomChic only offers clothing in sizes 12 to 20. Like—(scoffs) I just—

CP: Up -and-coming, plus-size brand, sizes 12 to 20. What?

SB: It says 22 on Instagram, but if you actually go to the site—that's not the super-sleuthing—but if you go to the site, it's only to 20. And it really got us asking, like, what does it mean for so many well-known people to be seen with this brand when some of them can't even wear the clothing?

CP: Yeah. I mean, okay. I think it's like a great advertising move. Um, a great, like in a growth way, you know what I mean? Like they're being very smart about how they're pursuing this, though this brand feels, might I say, très problématique.

SB: Please do! (Both laugh) Please say that. 

CP: It feels so bad I'm going to say it in bad French. Um, so I, I think that it was, um, a strategic marketing move to have these very known folks come to this event. Also at the event, in the images, they're wearing clothes from the brand. And then if you go to the website, like the, every garment that's offered—and as Saraya mentioned, every garment we looked at only went up to size 20—but every garment that's there is modeled, and then many of them also have photos of these influencers wearing that piece.

It's very interesting as well, because some of these influencers, you know, what can you tell from a photo? But I would imagine at least a handful of the folks who were in attendance and kind of posting about this, wear over a size 20. And like, cool, cool, cool that you can find a stretchy thing that works, but it just, it feels so I don't know, disingenuous or at least very confusing to have these folks wearing these clothes.

SB: And also so smart, because we talked about, uh, in a Dirt and Discourse previously about like Shein, and how you don't know how any of those clothes fit unless you see them on somebody. And so like in this instance, the clothing that people wore and the way it's displayed on the website looks better than some of the modeled photos. 

CP: I think much better. Yeah. Yeah. So we were talking about this and then you did some super-sleuthing on LinkedIn. 

SB: (Laughs) Is it super-sleuthing if you just follow a couple of links? I mean, it was hard—actually, no. Tt was hard to find information about this organization. Like, we were trying to find who's the parent company, who owns this, who's running this. And truly LinkedIn was the only way I could find some kind of like, um, organizational, not chart, but like breakdown of who's a part of this. So, um, BloomChic bills itself as, quote, “The world's only real-time fashion brand focused exclusively on the plus-size community.” Is it though? 20? 12-20? Is that the plus-size community?

CP: And “only?”

SB: The audacity, ok. And also like, I didn't know this, so I was like, “Cat, what is real-time fashion? What does that even mean? That means nothing to me”. 

CP: Can I tell you what I think it means?

SB: Yeah, I’d love to hear it.

CP: Did we talk about this before? I don't—so I, I listened to this like, kind of interesting podcast episode. It was like an NPR—I think it was on 1A or something—a NPR piece, and the topic was fast fashion and they focused on Shein. And so I think they're getting at, by “real-time fashion brand,” unlike a store like Torrid or Old Navy, which also are fast fashion, they pump out clothing in seasons. So it's like, this is kind of the collection, or these are the things that are coming out this season. Again, this is a very, uh, rudimentary explanation of this, uh, one that I might not be grasping fully. But I think what BloomChic might be getting at with this idea of real-time fashion is that, um, I assume they're similar to Shein in the sense that they don't put things out, like in a collection for the season; they see something that's hot and they just make it right then, regardless of when the season is, what's happening, like it's not as if it's a collection that we have like a timeframe around. It's like, “This is hot right now. Let's get some samples, let's take some pictures on, on a model or maybe a, you know, digitally altered mannequin-model situation, and let's sell them right now.” And that ties into kind of how they do like their purchasing and shipping as well, which I think we'll get to a little bit later. 

SB: Yeah, I guess, let me give you some more LinkedIn information, but thank you for the breakdown.

CP: It’s just as eye-rolly, what's to come. 

SB: So this is pulled from their LinkedIn site and it says, “Hello world. We're a team of fashion industry veterans and serial entrepreneurs—”

CP: —Gotta love that!

SB: Side note, I can't stand that phrase. Anyways. Back to the quote: “—super passionate about body positivity, female empowerment, and making on-trend fashion, both sustainable and accessible.” Bold claims, bold claims from what little we know already, right? So I, it's still like, okay, that's you got your line, you got your elevator pitch, but like, who is actually running this? Are there fat folks running this? Like, what is the background? Cause you say this is it, but like who started this? I want an origin story or a villain story, whatever it is. 

CP: Or both! In this sense, perhaps! (Saraya laughs)

SB: A little foreshadowing, maybe, I don’t know. It’s slander to call someone a villain, maybe—

CP: —I guess that’s true—

SB: —Um, well let's just hear from the founder, Bill Hu:

“BloomChic is a VC—- which is venture capitalist, “—backed early stage fashion e-commerce startup with operations in Los Angeles, San Francisco, Hong Kong, and Guangzhou. Launched at the end of 2020, we have raised around $10 million in initial funding and are scaling rapidly. We're well=positioned to enter the next stage of hypergrowth centered by our laser focus on earning and owning the global plus-sized fast fashion market outside of China, starting with the U.S.” 

CP: Okay. They are, they want to earn and own the global plus-size fashion market, but they are literally only going to a size 20? Ex-squeeze me Bill? I mean, that's really the plan here? What also frustrates me, is that like, this all sounds really good and their venture capital backs—so like Bill and company are—and again, I'm sure Bill is a fine person. Perhaps we were too quick to use the word “villain.” Um, but like, I think that this company is pitching itself, and I can just imagine how good and tight their, their pitches sound. And I'm just like, I can, I can just see how venture capitalists would just eat this up, but like, us, the market of people who this is supposed to be reaching out to, we see right through the bullshit!

SB: Right. Like, I get it. This is a whole untapped demographic. That's all we've been saying through all of this. Like, yeah, we do have money. It's less than most people because of, you know, systemic oppression, right. But like, we still have money. We'd be willing to put it towards something. And yet here you come out with these big audacious claims and it's not even including all the people who say it's including, like what? Please, please.

CP: No, no. It's even like a smaller size range than like, many of the size ranges that we complain about, you know? What's also very interesting about all of this is that it's like, the—their claim that they're so sustainable. And I think what is informing that for them—which I, I call bullshit—but I think what's informing that is that like you order something, and then they make it once you order it. And when we were talking about-- 

SB: —Just like a Butterburger. 

CP: It's like a Butterburger!

SB: For all of you Midwesterners.

CP: Ok, so I know, it's not the same, but you know, like, okay. I pull up to the Culver's drive-thru I'm, I'm ordering a Butterburger. They're making it fresh for me. It is not as if they don't have the supplies already there, the infrastructure of the Culver's created, it's not as if, like, zero money has been spent on this business until someone orders something, or like, zero products will go to waste unless someone orders something. It's just, I know that the teens at my local Culver's making me like a Culver's deluxe is not the same as how BloomChic is making their clothes, but it just, I feel like we need to think more critically about what they're saying when it's like,” Oh, it's sustainable if we don't make it until someone buys it.” I think that this is just not the full story. Um, it’s a gross, it's—I think it's a gross misrepresentation.

Um, and like I mentioned earlier, it feels so clear that they just know the right words to say. And the, I mean, smart marketing. Throw this party. Have all these super chic people of varying plus sizes—notably many folks over size 200—there, singing the praises of this brand. Um, I it's just, it is—it's smart. Um, but I'm, I'm mad about how smart it is because it feels like a lot of talk and not very much actual action in any of the, living up to any of these promises that they seem to be making.

SB: I just, it's an adequate representation of how saying something that's accessible and sustainable is neither of those things. 

CP: I mean, I guess price point wise, it does feel pretty accessible. 

SB: Oh, interesting. Because I was thinking more of like, accessible for the demographic, right. Like accessible to sizes and like, but also accessible in like, getting your clothes, and the reviews you saw where that it wasn't coming to people for like a month or more.

CP: Which is probably like, which, which tracks, if they don't start production on something until someone orders something, um, Yeah. Not as quick as the Butterburgers in the sense. This is also like a—oh, go ahead—

SB: —Also, we should clarify. Is Culver's a Midwestern thing or is it just like a Minnesota, Wisconsin thing? 

CP: No, it's there’s—I went to a Culver's in Texas once. There's less of them, but they exist. Yeah. Yeah. Wow. I know, but they're much more prevalent up here. 

SB: Yeah. Well, I'm glad that that reference plays, I’m glad it plays. Um, I guess. Okay. Here's the thing though. So influencers get paid to show up and show out and like we're not condemning them for partaking in a beautiful meal, in a beautiful place with beautiful people. Like, we just had a meal out with our Matter of Fat assistants, and you know, it was in the vein of living our best lives, I'm glad those folks had it

That's why I paid attention in the first place. These beautiful folks, like having a good time in like, you know, I'll go for a brunch. I haven't gone for a brunch in a long time, but I would once it's safe again for me to do so. But it just feels particularly weird because there's been a recent call to action that we have also noted on this podcast for the #FightForInclusivity from Saucye West. And so, just to like, give you a better idea of what this is, um, we have a statement from Jordan Underwood who goes by @JordanAllenHall on Instagram.

So, “A message to plus-size influencers. A handful of you are what are standing between the greater plus-size community and more inclusive sizing. If each of you with your respective 100,000+ followers endorsed the #FightForInclusiviy boycott and encourage your followers to do so, moves would be made on behalf of the brands tomorrow, and you could go back to getting your bag. By refusing to comment or publicly endorsed the boycott, you are putting your personal gain over the fight for fat liberation. If that's the choice you're making, that's fine, but make that choice and own up to it. Stop defending your lack of action and come to terms with your neoliberal ideals.

This is a labor movement. We are fighting for clothes, but with clothes come an entire industry of jobs for fat folks like yourselves. Boycotts and strikes work together. And if y'all get on board, there will be more jobs and clothes and opportunities for all fat people. Every movement for justice requires sacrifice. These sacrifices are temporary. Your world won't crumble if you take a stance and support the #FightForInclusivity. Let's help each other out and do this for the fat babies that we fight for every single day. Love and solidarity.”

CP: Ooh, this, this whole thing is just so good. 

SB: So good. And like, also hearkens back to what we were talking about a little bit ago about like, what are the generations that we're fighting for? Like, what are the choices we're making now so that it is easier for us in the future, easier for the younger folks? And so this comment is why we're talking about this BloomChic dinner in the Dirt and Discourse, because this is going on while all of these folks are going out and having a dinner and being the face of a brand that seems real shady. And so, yeah, I dunno. It's, it's like, what are people willing to lose right now in the pursuit of long-term community-wide gain?

CP: Precisely. And that was my favorite part of this whole kind of call to action statement that they put out, what are you willing to lose? And just noting that, like, you might lose something. You might lose a brand deal, you might lose a contract, you might lose something, but like, it will assuredly offer more opportunities for you and everyone else in the long term. But isn't that also just like, a snapshot of, I don't know, our country, our world? It’s like, if some folks were open to giving up a little bit now, it could be better for them and everyone else in the maybe not-so-long-term. Right? Like, maybe pretty soon here, but folks are just so, um, unable to, I don't know—and again, I feel like, um, this happens in a lot of ways and like, I probably am not giving up things that I could give up to make the world a better place right now either. And, and I hope it's clear that like, this list of folks that we named at this beautiful dinner, it's not like, we're like, “Oh, cancel all of them for going to this thing.” It's just like the bigger picture here. Um, and how beautifully this post from Jordan kind of put it all together. 

SB: Yeah. But you're right, Cat. Like, this is just one other example of, you know, what does liberation work look like? And how I think body positivity is increasingly a neoliberal tool and tagline, as opposed to the fat liberation that we support.

CP: Exactly.

[THEME MUSIC FADES IN AND OUT]

SB: Wow, wow, wow. Another great episode! Thank you so much for spending your time with us! 

CP: As always, visit www.matteroffatpod.com for show notes, transcripts, info about Matter of Fat, links to our socials, access to older episodes and to link to Fisher Media’s, “Minnesotans Reacts” series that we're part of. 

SB: If you love the pod and want to send some monetary support our way, get into our—

[CLIP FROM THEME SONG SAYING “MATTER OF FAT” CUTS IN, CUTS OUT]

CP+SB: —Cash!~

SB: We're on Venmo @MatterofFatPod, and you can find more info about fat cash on our website. 

CP: As you know, we love to share shoutouts for fat cash gifts and reviews in Apple podcasts. But this episode, we don't have any to share! So if you'd like to hear your name, right here, in our next episode, you can pop over to Apple Podcasts for a review or send us some funds on Venmo. And of course, both are never expected, but always so, so appreciated. 

SB: Truly, truly appreciate it. Appreciate it all. 

CP: Oh, I can't wait till we're all together again!

SB: You won't have to wait long. So we publish episodes every other Wednesday, and next up is a Fat Dish episode where we will chat about so many things, all the things.

CP: Yes. Okay. And I just finished another romcom read with a fat main character, and I cannot wait to give you my full review in our Fat Dish. 

SB: Oh my gosh. We'll get into it, and so much more, on our next episode of—

CP + SB: —Matter of Fat.