S4E9 - Fat Dish: Hot Media Summer, #FightForInclusivity, + Fat Seating - Transcript
Season 4, Episode 9:
Fat Dish: Hot Media Summer, #FightForInclusivity, + Fat Seating
Released on August 4th, 2021. For complete episode info, visit this page!
[THEME MUSIC FADES IN AND FADES OUT]
Cat Polivoda: Welcome to Matter of Fat, a body positive podcast with Midwest sensibilities. Hi, I'm Cat Polivoda, a local fat feminist, shop owner—okay, and between my required nightly popsicle consumption and my little bedroom window AC unit, I am somehow still alive and kicking in the summer weather. I'm joined by my co-host and producer, Saraya Boghani.
Saraya Boghani: Hi, I'm Saraya. I'm a fat ,multiracial, Minneapolitan millennial who can't stand the heat or the smoke and the river company billionaire is the only one who can seemingly get out of this proverbial kitchen.
CP: On Matter of Fat, we're here to talk about the cultural politics of fat liberation with a Midwest perspective.
SB: This is a Fat Dish episode where Cat and I just chat it up for y’all. We've got a great interview-based episode for you next time, and many others from the season and previous ones to check out.
CP: And this ep will be great, uh, because you'll hear from us as we talk about our studio time reacting to Minnesotan media, our own media takes of course, summer vacation planning with COVID concerns and the world on fire.
A call to #FightForInclusivity in plus-size fashion and how tricky it can be to find a good place to sit, all as a—
CP + SB: —Matter of Fat.
[THEME MUSIC FADES IN AND OUT]
SB: All right, y'all. Yes, it is the Fat Dish o let us dish a little bit here. I think a good place for us to start Cat would be talking about something that relates to both of us and the pod, which is not something that we put together, but something that Fischr Media put together, which is a bunch of Minnesotans reacting to Minnesotan things! And it's all live on YouTube, and there's been a series of topics that have been released and many more to come. and I think we should talk about it a little bit more.
CP: I would love to, this is so fun. We were so happy Alec reached out to Saraya and I to do this. Um, we are two of many Minnesotans who are reacting to different like, Minnesota and Midwest things. We talked about this a little bit, I think in like the closing of a previous episode, but now, as you are consuming this episode, a couple of different, um, uh, segments of that series have been out. So like, the first one that came out was us reacting to the Target Lady SNL skit, um, which I feel like we, um, had a lot of reactions to like—we would, I don't know. It's one of the, I don't know for me, especially, I feel like I just giggled incessantly the entire time. Um, but I had lots of, lots of reactions to that one. Um, and then—
SB: —The Target Lady SNL skit, just so everybody knows—because I had only maybe seen it once before then,—but it's Kristen Wiig as like a Target cashier and then various guests coming to, or customers coming to check out and her just like getting too excited, getting just overly excited about these products and how she would repurpose them all for something else completely different and ridiculous. Uh, and she had just great rapport with this lady named Peg, who’s played by Justin Timberlake.
CP: I think that it, like, isn't it, the case that the Target Lady like was in lots of different, like there were lots of skits that she was part of, but then the Justin Timberlake one is maybe the most well-known?
SB: You're talking to the wrong person, ‘cause that is not my skit. Like that is, it's not the one that I tracked over the years, but it was very entertaining.
CP: Maybe I'm wrong. Maybe that was the only one, I just, I mean, yes, Kristen Wiig’s character is hilarious, but really Justin Timberlake as an old grandma really just, just did it for me in that, in that episode.
SB: I think what got me though was they did recreate a version of Target in the nineties really well, with like endcap, uh, details of gum and candy and, uh, the vest. It was just all—you know, as, as a fatter child with a budget minded mom, you know, Target is where we would primarily get clothes. And there were just so many, so many times spent, you know, scrolling through, was it Mossimo or Cherokee brands?
CP: Yes! YES!!
SB: Thank goodness they got rid of that. They adjusted that. Um, I like got a really, I look back at it now. I don't think it's atrocious, but I feel like it's atrociously-colored Isaac Mizrahi color block knit sweater in 8th grade.
CP: Okay! I remember when that land came out.
SB: Yes, I was. I was so into it. It was not, not where it now, but I've got some birthday pic receipts to prove it all.
CP: Oh we’re gonna need to see those, Saraya.
SB: I mean, this is audio medium, so maybe we don't need to see them.
CP: Or maybe you just need to send them over and I'll put them in the show notes on our website.
SB: Uh, what are the chances.
CP: When you say Cherokee brand, wasn't that—so several episodes ago, last season, we talked about, um, the benefits of being fat and on the cover for that episode, we put different pictures from us when we were younger. Were you not wearing a very cool Cherokee brand, uh, zip-up vest in that picture?
SB: I was not. I'm sorry to disappoint you. No, I don't think that was.
CP: I could have sworn—you had like, a little broach too. I mean, it was a necklace that was like a dragonfly?
SB: No. Dragonfly necklace, yes. The vest was a performance fleece I’m pretty sure, from Old Navy.
CP: Well maybe, sorry. I'm mixing up my, my casual fashion brands of the early 2000s.
SB: Yeah, like medium fashion. (Both laugh)
CP: Yeah. Utilitarian fashion, or like, you know, basics.
SB: The basics. Oh, yeah.
CP: So I, um, I did include that information in our show notes from the previous episode, but I will—meaning like links to, um, these, uh, the series from Fischr Media and the Target Lady, SNL skit—um, but we'll do that again in this episode and also link up the additional ones that have come out. So recently there was a, a reaction video to Lizzo his first music, video, Batches and Cookies, that we got to respond to and react to.
SB: I mean, our first episode of this podcast, we reference Lizzo. So like, we have been attuned to her career progression for a very, very long time. So it was really fun to just like, go back and watch that video after not having seen it for such a, such a duration, /Vut it was interesting because—I mean, you'll see this when you go watch the video—but a lot of other people didn't know her origin or background or how much she utilized the Twin Cities in her videos. And, and like her, her values that are tied to the video.
CP: Yeah. It was interesting. We noticed like that we—and this is like, not a negative thing, just like an observation—we weren't really included, like our reactions weren’t included as much in that video. And I think it's because—actually you had suggested this, Saraya—it’s like, it's not new to us, right? Like Lizzo, we just, we know all about this woman and we'll sing her always. Um, and I felt like for many folks, it was like, the first being—surprised by some of that like origin story stuff. We weren't surprised!
SB: What a nice little time capsules of a video though, watching Batches and Cookies.
CP: And the fashion of 2014.I tell ya. (Saraya laughs) I loved it.
SB: Yeah, it was, it was strong. It was strong. Um, and then the other one that you can go check out is the woodchipper scene from Fargo.
CP: The movie Fargo. And actually, as we record this, we haven't seen this yet. ‘Cause it'll be out by the time you are consuming, uh, this episode of our podcast, but it's not out yet. So it's a little bit of a mystery to see, to see what's all included there.
SB: I had a very visceral, vibrant reaction. (CP + SB laugh) Yeah. It's a visceral scene, I would say. I have never saw, I've never seen the movie Fargo and, but I knew there was a woodchipper. I knew there was a woodchipper and I had no idea even knowing that, what to expect. And it was just, it was a sight to behold and fun, fun to react. I think being put in a studio space and being told, “Hey, I'm going to show you something and like, please react to this,” just gets you to a higher level of reactivity and performance. That is kind of fun.
CP: Oh yeah!
SB: It’s a little fun.
CP: Yeah. I totally agree. And yeah, I hadn't, I mean, I feel like in all of the crime scene shows I watch, there have been like, woodchippers utilized to dispose of body parts that I, so I'm familiar with the concept if you will. Um, but I had not seen that scene of Fargo, ever. Um, and so that was whew. There was a lot to respond to.
SB: I just think that's terrible methodology to do anything. ‘Cause like, think about all the DNA in that one.
CP: Okay. Okay.
SB: But you can't clean that out.
CP: Like different from like when this happens in CSI, Miami, in Fargo—and sorry, folks, we're really getting into this—but like it's snowing. And so like residue of things is apparent in the snow.
SB: Residue. Of blood.
CP: I’m trying not to be graphic! Um, ‘cause it's kind of graphic, but it's just harder to hide what you're doing when there's snow, white earth around you.
SB: Yeah. Accurate. Yeah. Yes, we should.
CP: We should veer away from it.
SB: I think I have to say to that is. “TMI, Miss Girl.” That's what I have to say, which is a new phrase from the Target Lady video that worked its way into my regular, uh, parlance, so. TMI, Miss Girl.
CP: Yeah. One of my fave quotes that I actually said for years and years and years with my besties and didn't realize it was from that, that epic SNL skit. Uh, okay. Hard pivot away from woodchipper mentions. Oh, but we, we, I will just reiterate that we'll put those links to the episodes that are out in our shownotes, and also want to link to Alec’s Patreon for Fischr Media. Um, if you are interested in seeing, um, unreleased footage—I’m trying to think of the best way to describe it. It's like unreleased footage. So for instance, if you want to watch six minutes of Saraya and I only responding to one of these things, um, or other people that you find to be particularly compelling as part of these Minnesotans React series, you, for, um, a very like small Patreon fee, you can get access to those. Um, and they're very fun.
SB: Yeah. I mean, I haven't even seen them, so, I imagine they're very fun ‘cause we're involved, but all the other people reacting are very engaging too.
CP: They’re cool!
SB: Okay. But like, it's not so hard of a pivot if we talk about other media that we've been watching and reacting to, but not, you know, recorded reacting to. So what, uh, what are your media racks? What have you been watching? What have you been listening to? What have you've been thinking about?
CP: There's just so much, I mean, I will start with the update that everyone's been waiting for. Uh—
SB: —I (laughs) I have no idea what you’re going to say. So I feel like it was a bold statement. But go for it, please.
CP: (laughs) I know you are not waiting on tenderhooks to hear where I'm at in the Criminal Minds rewatch, but 'm here to tell you, uh, Saraya, you know this, but the people, I'm here to tell the masses that I'm finally done with the Criminal Minds series. I made it through Season 15. I have just so many thoughts. If you'll remember. I mean, we've really been given you play-by-plays as we've been going through this, y’all, but like, if you remember, Saraya started rewatching it. Then I started rewatching it. And then at one point we like, we kind of switched, like she was well ahead of me, and then I became well ahead of her. Saraya, you have not yet finished the series.
SB: I had a two month lead time and I wasn't really watching it. I was watching it for the first time and I was like, so far ahead and Cat's like, “Ooh, maybe I'll watch that again.” And then a week later, she’s like “I’m where you were!”, and I’m like “M’am!”
CP: Yeah. It's like, well, I will say I watched about half of it before kind of, and like, remembered much of it. Didn't remember all of it, but then a lot of these seasons have been new to me. I kind of think about the time I passed you, is when they started to become new?
SB: Gotcha.
CP: And so I've just like, for a while, Saraya and I were very in touch about our thoughts and feels, but now that I finished the series, I just like, I can't—Saraya I’m not going to tell you, I’m not going to spoil it all. So I'm just so eager for you to finish so we can properly debrief. Okay?
SB: I'm sorry, I'm sorry. I am like, Season 13. So, I'm almost there.
CP: You’re movin’. The last two seasons are much shorter, also like, we, and we started to get into this. We saw that there was talk of a reboot on Paramount+, but I haven't seen any like, updates or anything from that sense. And I can say that like, based on the finale and the final season, it's like, wrapped up enough where I would be happy if they didn't continue, but it's also leaves it open enough for like, continuation could happen and it wouldn’t be weird. So it really could go either way. Um, and I'm interested to see what comes of that.
SB: Yeah, I guess I needed to really step away from it because it was so bizarre. It just—
CP: —It just gets weirder and weirder.
SB: It gets so outrageous, which is why I kept watching. ‘Cause it was like, “No, they can't do that. Like how do you follow that up? Oh, that's what you did. That's so absurd and ludicrous”—not Chris Bridges—um—
CP: —(Laughs) Oh my God, Saraya—
SB —But it just, I kinda, I wish Chris Bridges was in more things just so people could say, “That was Ludacris.” Like that would be great. Anyway. It's just my, it's just what I want. The heart wants what it wants, but in any case, a Criminal Minds. I just, it's so weird. It gets so weird, so fast. And I know all shows do once they hit so many seasons, like they just have to, um, but like, thinking about, thinking about this workplace drama. Like your work, your—y'all would have been shut down. And I say this over and over again, but like, y’all woulda been shut down. You wouldn't have gotten new people. You wouldn't have gotten to hire new people. You wouldn't have—getting to keep using your jet! Like, that's not okay.
CP: You're right. You're right. And it's like the, it goes on for so many seasons that like, there's a point in one of the final seasons where like the child of, one of the serial killers from like 10 seasons prior comes back. And it's like, we can all like the, just the webs we’re weaving here. Like we can only do—this has gone on for so long.
SB: There is a main villain named Peter Lewis.
CP: But what did they call him, what do they call him, Saraya?
SB: They call him Mr. Scratch. And they just refer to Scratch coming after them. And it’s just like, come on, y’all.
CP: And it's just like, feels like Scooby-Doo, to like refer to a villain as like, “Scrach is comin’ to get us.” It’s like—(cracks up laughing)
SB: He has that quality! Because what he does is he uses drugs to induce these differently. Oh, wow! I'm like ready to launch into the specifics! That’s how deep in we are, everybody. I'm not going to do that. I'm not going to do it. I won't do it. It's ridiculous. I don't have as much, uh, like it's hard to care about other characters when they keep dying or getting pulled out or like, yeah. There's one character who I really think doesn't get her due, her due focus?
Um, I will say there was one episode—this is all I'll say after, and I won't say anything else after this, about Criminal Minds—but there was one episode about truthers, and I think like New Mexico or something like that. And it's like, “Oh, you all, just won’t like, believe anything we have to say, we can be as transparent as possible, and you think there's this huge conspiracy?” And it's like, oh wow. It's funny that they make it seem like the small cloister of people who believe what they believe. And yet, so much of our country are truthers. It's just like, oh, they had no idea how bad this was gonnabe in the long run. Um, so that, that hit home. Uh, it's being a little too real and I was like, I don't need to watch this, and then also look at the news and see the outcomes of people, believing certain things. So yeah, that's, that's, that's Criminal Minds for me.
CP: Yeah.
SB: But I'll be done soon.
CP: And we will discuss further, we will. Um, yeah, there's just, there's so much. There's so much to talk about. Also, I just like, warms my little heart how many of you are watching Criminal Minds now and are like telling us about it. (Laughs)
SB: Oh my gosh.
CP: I think it’s so silly and so great. And if anyone else has finished, um, I would be happy for a short Instagram DM convo about that, if—if and when that sounds like fun. Because I think there's, I think can think of like three or four people, at least, who have been DMing me about, um, getting back into Criminal Minds and I should say, I got back into Criminal Minds because other people were talking about it. I don't know if it's having like, a resurgence or if it's just like, among my groups of people.
SB: It was released on Netflix. So I think people could just really get into it.
CP: Oh, but it had been on Netflix though?
SB: I think it’d probably gone away and come back. ‘Cause it hadn't been on for very long time.
CP: Because I could tell the ones that I had watched already back in the day, you know? Um, yeah, maybe that's why, but yeah, you, Saraya, watching someone else, and then Mia—Mia, what's your last name? Mia..something? Oh, Mia I’m sorry—was watching was doing just like, uh, a real deep dive on her stories and that quite sucked me in as well. So yeah, so, so, so good. Okay. We, again, we're talking about media, we've talked about Criminal Minds for fricking 15 minutes. We need, we need to move,. Uh, Saraya, you’re up. You go ahead with that with a media rec, before I go on and on about my other ones.
SB: Okay, well, I have a few, but like let's keep it in the copaganda region. Shall we? So—
CP: —Might as well.
SB: Might as well. On brand, on genre. Um, I finally watched Mare of Easttown featuring Kate Winslet, um, Guy Pearce, Jean Smart—I'm doing that thing where I name off all of these names.
CP: Classic Saraya.
SB: People know, Guy Pearce. Oh, well, that’s not—
CP: That's not a you problem. That's a me problem. You're fine.
SB: And Jean Smart is an amazing—I had you look her up and you're like, “Oh, I do know her.” You would recognize her face. She also has been in Hacks a very, very funny show about kind of an older comedian and then a younger comedian and building out, um, I dunno, into this brand new world, where, how do you, how do you get people to like, and laugh about things that you care about? Uh, that's not really the premise of the show, but that's what I'm distilling it into. In any case, great cast. Hard to watch, because it takes place in I think Pennsylvania?
CP: Conshohocken?
SB: No, not Conshohocken. (Both CP + SB laugh).
CP: So, do you want to explain what just happened?
SB: No. You need to explain what just happened.
CP: As the reality show lover, I have watched all the seasons of The Circle on Netflix and in season one and season two, there are people who are from the great city of, I think it's like Conshohocken and, or just some like very like, wild name of a city in Pennsylvania. Um, and so I, my only reference to Mare of Easttown, is that what it's called, Mare of Easttown?
SB: Yeah. Cause she lives in Easttown, not Conshohocken.
CP: Oh, okay. My only reference is like, there was an SNL skit about, um, this and they just like, were really leaning into the accents—
SB: -Worder, yeah—
CP: —Which made me think of these characters, well, they’re real people, these contestants on The Circle, which makes me think of Conshohocken. (Laughs)
SB: And yeah, it's not anything related to The Circle. It's very sad and bleak and also kind of like romantic in a way that I didn't anticipate because it's, it's in the winter. It's like very dark and cold and dreary. It really just feels like, you know, we love—ugh, “we”—everybody loves a British crime drama. Um, no, but like a lot of people do, and it feels like they've really done a good job of replicating that in the U.S. And you just get to see different family relationships and how they build up. I thought I was just gonna be the crime investigation the whole time, and that is a part of it, but it's not the main focus, because it's like, how is this person coping with like, the loss of a family member, um, complicated family systems, you know, being a detective in a small town when people are going missing or getting hurt, um, and all of those things. And so I thought it was an incredibly compelling watch. I was very engaged, very interested to see who does what.
CP: It, it sounds great, and many people have sung it's praises. I like Kate Winslet, and so that's exciting to me. This is definitely on my list. Saraya, is it just like a one season thing is like a one and done, or will it come back or like what's how, how long is the season?
SB: I don't think it'll come back. It wasn't very many episodes. It was like, uh, hour-ish long episodes, maybe 10. I could be very wrong about that, but it's not super—
CP: —Not that much of a commitment.
SB: Again, another reason why I feel like it's more of like a British series, because they know how to tell a story in a certain amount of time. And yeah. It's like sad, but it's not as depressing as I thought it was gonna be. And also it's just like, very sad, depressing. So I guess, I don't know how they struck that balance for me, but they did. HBO Max, baby.
CP: Oh shit. I really got to get HBO Max. Oh my gosh, add this to the list.
SB: Mare—not mayor, I just need to be clear. It's not Mayor of Easttown, it's not about a mayor. M-A-R-E.
CP: Which I did not, I did not get it at first, before I saw it written down. I thought I heard mare and thought mayor. Um, because why wouldn't you? If you just hear it, you know? It's like, oh, it sounds like—
SB: Mom Mom, the mayor, (Both CP + SB laugh) in the, in The Circle. One of the characters gets to talk with their mom and their grandma and they call their grandma “Mom Mom.”
CP: It's very sweet, but it's a little silly. But there's so many like ways people refer to grandma's, you know? Oh, no, do you hear Viv? (Cat meowing continuously in background)
SB: I sure do. What does she think about Conshohocken?
CP: I think she never wants to go there.
SB: Has she watched Mare? That's Cat’s cat, Vivi.
CP: Yeah. She's like, “What are you doing in that closet? I want to bother you.”
SB: How would you explain this to anybody? Just talking to myself in my closet? Let's talk about your media recs. What have you, what else have you been watching?
CP: I guess, one I can rec, one I don't necessarily recommend, but man, I'm into it. Okay. We'll start there.
Uh, it's summertime y'all and I'm watching Big Brother again. My besties are into it, so I'm into it and wow. I'm just loving this season. They committed to having a more diverse cast. Um, so it's just like, better television. Fancy that! Like wild, how that happens. Yeah, it's just like, I mean, just really good, um, TV. That's the, there's so many different people that I'm interested in. Like previously it was like, oh, there's like these three people I like, ad then I guess a couple other people who are pretty cool, and a bunch of people I actively dislike. Um, but now it's like, oh, I really like over half of you.
Like, there are cool people as part of this cast of contestants. Um, and so, uh, with my besties, we just like, kind of get extra excited about all types of things. I don't know if I talked about this here, but like we watched The Circle together, and then The Circle finale night was when I was still in their bubble, we ate a meal, comprised entirely of circle things. Lke we just really like, especially in the pandemic, like really are just like indulging ourselves in like, in silly fun things. And so in the spirit of that, we did like a, uh, kind of like a draft. Like we all picked our favorite players—well we, we didn't all get our favorite, right, ‘cause like we went in order, like, you know, I pick one, and then Karen picks one and then Margo, picks one. Um, and so I have five team or five people, uh, of the Big Brother cast that like, if one of my five wins, then I win our little friendly wager.
So I'm interested to see how they all do. And it's just, yeah, it's fun. I don't tend to watch any of the live feeds. I don't tend to watch most of the episodes live, like—
SB: What does that mean? Like live feeds? I don’t know Big Brother at all.
CP: For those Big Brother fans out there, they’d be like, “Yeah, you're a real fan. If you watch the live feeds”, um, you can watch for most of the hours of the day, there are like, you can, if you pay to subscribe to Paramount+—like CBS through Paramont+—you can go on and there's like four different cameras you can pick from. And you can just watch like, live footage of in real time, what's happening in the house.
SB: Oh, no.
CP: Yeah. It's really interesting. And of course there's some things like once in a while—not once in a while, actually pretty often—like if they're doing a competition for something you can't see, cause it'll give things away, they'll take the live feeds down.
And actually, speaking of cats, they'll put like these like, cute little like kitties in a, in a kitty shelter, video up, um, in hopes that those cats get adopted. It's actually very sweet. But, yeah, so a lot of people who are really big Big Brother fans watch the live feeds. Um, Karen and Margo watch the live feeds. But I, I, I guess last summer I did cause I was just more flexible, but this summer, if I'm going to watch TV, there's like other stuff I'd rather be watching, but I do really get into the vids and—or the episodes rather. And then I also enjoy Big Brother Twitter, quite a bit. Um, people just have a lot of hot takes that I really enjoy.
It just brings me lots of giggles. So if you're watching Big Brother, um, I, my predictions: I think Tiffany is really well-suited to win. Unfortunately, she's not on my list of people. Um, I think Kyland is also really well-suited to win. And I don't know. I think Claire is really good. I like Sarah Beth quite a bit. Um, Hannah. Oh, Hannah and Derek ex-relationship, hello? What a, what a sweet little situation. I just, yeah. So if any of you are watching Big Brother, those are my takes, but Saraya I will stop because I know you're not watching and you don't know who these people are and I'm sorry to bore you.
SB: No, I like having you to break in the broadcast. Just kidding, just kidding. I was just trying to be like, wow, like this show is like literally called Big Brother. And there are live feeds that random strangers can tap into. Like what kind of Black Mirror episode have we created in this, but it sounds sweet. And I'm sorry that you're maybe not going to win because that person isn't on your team and your draft.
CP: Yeah. I know, but we'll see. It's like, it's still really early. And the season started a little bit late, so like, the finale isn't until the end of September. So we just, we got weeks left of this. There is, there's lots more to go.
SB: Hmm. Well. I mean, I have something else that could be contrived to be a Black Mirror episode that I've been watching.
CP: I feel like I know where this is going. Oh, what show is it?
SB: Gossip Girl!
CP: Yes, I knew it! I do not watch, but based on how you describe it, I was like, hmm, I can see that connection.
SB: Yeah. I mean, it's technology, it's weird people like, watching each other and making life miserable for some folks.
So, Gossip Girl got her a reboot, uh, on HBO Max. And I know some of you are watching and I'm curious to know what you all think. I am enjoying it, but it also feels like, ridiculous. Like not even Criminal Minds, ridiculous. Truly unhinged writing as to like, what is going on and how they were thinking about high schoolers in New York—like very, very wealthy high schoolers, um, their teachers—
And so the premise, sorry if I'm ruining this for you, but it's literally coming up in the first episode, is that the, the high schoolers at the same school that was present in the first version of Gossip Girl are just out of control. They have no respect for their teachers. They don't do their classwork. And so this group of teachers led by Tavi Gevinson—who, um, if you don't know her, she is a millennial, she's younger than us, but she started this magazine called “Rookie” and it was like a style magazine back in the day. So she's like, clearly older than some of these people, but she's just like, become Gossip Girl with a couple other teachers, um, and as a way to like make kids know that they're being paid attention to, and there can be consequences for their outcomes. And it's just like, what teachers would do cyberbullying to their students in this day and age? (Both laugh) They dug up the old Gossip Girl blog and they're using Instagram instead to do it. And it's just very silly and very good, and I think the characters themselves are riveting to watch to see what they're gonna do and how ridiculous they're going to be. But, um, it is just like, very expensive-looking. So their production is there. Um, which is also part of the reason I like watching it so much is just to see this ridiculous, wealthy, I dunno, it's like upper, upper-class, lower-class dynamic that comes into play.
And like back in the old version, they would definitely pull in you know, the who's-who, uh, in New York, uh, for cameos and things like that, and they're certainly doing that this time around and it just feels very cool. Like they have a scene that set at the theater—oh, and all of it takes place after the pandemic. So like, fall of this school year coming up is the idea of it taking place. So, um, but like Jeremy O. Harris is a playwright. They have a Christopher John Rogers show, they get Princess Nokia to play a show at like Webster Hall. So I don't know how they got the budget, but they are in these iconic New York places, doing iconic things, and the fashion is really interesting.
So I don't know, I'm hooked. I don't think the writing is—I don't know, it’s good, It's funny though, because somebody does something silly and then they, they, they get blasted by their friends saying, “Ugh, like, Jamila Jamil defended you on Twitter. This is the worst thing that could happen!” (Both laugh) That's very funny! That's a very, very funny line. That's a very funny, uh, observation. I would be interested to hear what other people think.
CP: Do I need to watch original Gossip Girl to appreciate the reboot? Or could I just start with the reboot?
SB: I don't think you'd have to watch the original one, but they definitely do nods to it.
CP: Ok.I would just miss those references, I guess the way you described this, it feels like, very rooted in present day pop culture, and that's something that I like. So I don't know. I never, before have I thought, “Oh, maybe I'll watch this now”, but the way you just described it, I'm like eh, that could go on the list.
SB: I think, I mean, it's, it's entertaining. It's a sensory visual, like overload. It's like openly-queer characters in a way that the other show could never. It just is so different from the one before, but also like that makes sense with the trajectory of New York and our society too. So, yeah, it's interesting. It doesn't feel as soapy as the old one and yet it is just as weird, like plotline-wise. So I don't, I don't know. Um, yeah, I'd be interested to hear what you think if you give it a watch.
CP: At some point, I probably will look at, well eventually when I get HBMO Max, which I really just need to do.
SB: Maybe I need to get that for you as a gift or something like that. Um, there is one actor named Luke Kirby who played Lenny Bruce in The Marvelous Mrs. Maisel and it was cool to see him play another character. And he's just very attractive. He plays a dad, so like, that's where I'm at, obviously. But, um—
CP: —”What’s your name, who’s your daddy?" I mean, we are of that age. Y’all, there's this meme that happened and went around—not a meme, a reel, probably my favorite reel of the last year, which is really saying something,—um, and it is a woman, someone who I presume to be a woman of probably, I don't know, mid-thirties, uh, and that the song, what song is that even? But the line is like, “What's your name? Who's your daddy?” And like this woman, like looking like, “What's your name? Who's your daddy?” And essentially saying like, “I'm of the age where I can date like an 18 year old or a 40 year old and be just fine.” Uh, and I really identify with that. (Laughs)
SB: Oh my gosh. It's I think it's by The Zombies, that song, I don’t know, it’s a good song. “Time of the Season.”
CP: I re-shared that reel, at some point and was like, “It’s been months, I'm still thinking about this,” and the person who created it responded and was like, “Wow, this thing got so much action. It really resonated with lots of us.”
SB: Uh, yeah, I don't know. I, I'm glad, I'm glad that we can feel seen and heard by TikTok and reels in this day and age. But I, I am just astounded how many thoughts I have about Gossip Girl. I just think we should talk about something else.
CP: I also feel like I need to retract the ages I gave. I would not date an 18 year old. I think it's more like—
SB: —I wasn’t gonna say anything, but—
CP: —No, I think it's like, I, in this moment in my life, it's like you could be between 25 and 65, and I might turn my head at you. I think that's what we're getting at.
SB: Woah!
CP: ‘Cause you know, I think David Rossi is hot. Okay? That’s really helped influence—
SB: —Another Criminal Minds reference., everyone.
CP: It’s really. It's really influenced my, like my age range (laughs). That's a story for another time as well. Okay. Well, I have one more media thing to share that's not TV, it's a book-related.
I finished the series—okay. So I've talked about this truly, the entire span of our podcast. You all came along with me the last several years I've gotten into romance. I've gotten into reading more and I do it exclusively—primarily, not exclusively through—audiobooks. And my, my gateway into the romance genre was an author named—or is an author named—Jasmine Guillory. And she has the series that started with this book called The Wedding Date. Uh, and I tried to get Saraya into it, and if you remember Saraya, was like, “Oh, it’s okay. But I just can't really let go—” and Saraya coined the term—“to let go and let Guillory”, meaning you—and correct me, Saraya, you might have more nuance to this—but I take this as the idea of like, okay, I know this is not very realistic, but I'm just gonna let go and get into it.
SB: Yeah! To let youself, immerse yourself in this storytelling and fantasy, uh, relationship fantasy built up by a great writer.
CP: She's really great, and she actually came to St. Paul for a book signing a couple of years back and we went to see her. It was so great. Um, but I have been letting go and letting Guillory for this entire series and the final book of the series—which I think was maybe book seven—uh, came out a couple of weeks ago, and it was just such a delight.
And as I finished, I felt like, kind of, I dunno, a little emotional, actually. It was very bittersweet for me because truly, this series has been my gateway into just the joy and fun and like frivolous reading of—frivolous may be the wrong word—but just like, there are not a lot of things I do just for fun. Um, and maybe more of, because of the pandemic and the media I consume, but like, just to read—for so long in my life, I would only read like personal development books and like maybe some memoirs and, you know, business books and things like that. And to just be like, so happy to get sucked into the stories of like fun romances. Oh my gosh, it's been just such a gift of the last few years and, um, something I really feel like I owe to Jasmine Guillory ‘cause her, her series and that first book, The Wedding Date, is really what got me started.
SB: Hmm. I always find it so sad when a book ends or even like a series, then you've gotten so close to the characters when it comes to a close, because, I don't know. It's like, I'm, I'm sitting with you on your journey while I'm reading that book. And then it's like, my has come to an end, too.
CP: Something I've learned that I guess—I mean, of course this exists has existed for as long as literature has existed, but like, compared to what I'd been reading before, this felt very new to me—the universe-building that takes place in these like series of books, it's just—to like, get into the second or third or fourth book and be like, “Oh, that's her friend. Oh my God. He's here? Oh. And that bar, I know that bar!” You know, it's just so fun for me. Um, and something I just hadn't experienced in forever. So, yeah. Gosh, it does feel a little, um, yeah, bittersweet for that series to end. But I, I mean, I think Jasmine's gonna continue writing and I just will eagerly pre-order any book she ever writes ever. So, uh, look forward to seeing what's next for her.
SB: Okay. So Cat, we've been talking about your journey with the Guillory universe, but what's happening in the Cat universe.
CP: Oh, in the Cat universe?
SB: We’ve been talking a lot about media, and that’s proportionate to how we live our lives. But maybe tell us one thing, one update with you.
CP: One update? Yeah. I mean, I feel like our conversation is really a picture of what, I feel like I've been consuming extra media lately, just because it's a fun distraction. Um, yeah. Things are good and fine for me. I will say like, just, the last couple of weeks here have been feeling very mundane, y'all. Like, this is, this is the level of the pandemic where I'm feeling like, whoa, this is more of the same day after day. Um, so I'm trying to really like, grasp onto excitements where they come. And one big excitement is that I'm hiring at the shop.
I'm—we're gonna expand hours for fall, and so for that to happen, I need more people. Um, so I'm in the midst of a hiring process. I'm just like so excited with all the folks who applied, excited to be able to sit down with some of them for, um, for some interviews and yeah. Uh, really looking forward to what will come with all of that. So I guess that's probably like the big, one big thing happening in my world. Uh, how about for you Saraya? What's one big thing happening for you?
SB: Um, like road trips, I think.
CP: Oh yeah!
SB: So I just went on a really small family one, to Sioux Falls, of places. I've never been before, but it was just nice to get out. And, um, I don't know, go through a lot of areas that I used to do a lot growing up as a kid, going out to our family, um, like, shared lake place. So kind of going through farm country and being reminded of that and being really familiar. And then, uh, and then a few weeks ago I got to go up to my friend's cabin and recreate a cabin weekend that we had in 2015, just like a bunch of college friends. So it's just been so nice to travel. I am not at that point where I'm ready to like jet set yet. Um—
CP: —Same.
SB: Like, desperately want to, but like—
CP: —Same.
SB: But yeah. So, um, yeah, it was really nice to just like, shift. ‘Cause like you're saying, the monotony of the same day in and day out, it's like so nice to get, uh, an environmental shift to help you shake some things up. So yeah, that's where I'm at.
CP: Cool cool cool.
SB: What about fat things? Let’s talk about some fat things
CP: Fat things. Well, okay. Actually the first thing I'd like to bring up, relates to what we talked about in our Dirt and Discourse in our most recent episode.
SB: Okay.
CP: Um, we had talked about how just, we talked about the, the wild ride of sizing. Overall, but especially in plus-size fashion and specifically how some brands like refuse to make sizes that's a full, inclusive plus-size range. So maybe stop at 3XL or, uh, like say they go to 5XL, 6XL, but really have manipulated their size charts so that a large size, like a 5XL, really is what we would call a 2XL compared to normal other plus-sized brands. Um, and there is this awesome influencer, uh, and activist on Insta named @SaucyeWest.
And she's been just like, very bold in calling out brands and went so far as to call for a boycott. Um, and as part of this, using this hashtag, um, #FightForInclusivity has like created really good lists—like, you know, kind of running, running lists that things can be added to—but lists of different brands that do some of the, perpetrate, you know, perpetrate some of those things that we had been ragging on them for in our previous episode. So brands that, you know, say they have higher sizes but don't, and then also lists of brands that have been doing more work around this and maybe go up to 5XL or, or larger, um, and have been more clear about their quest to be inclusive with their sizing.
I think I wanted to call that out because it relates so much to what we've been talking about, to thank Saucy for the work of putting those lists together. And I'll be sure to link that in the show notez, nd so folks can head over to see some of that stuff, and actually I'll make an effort to share some of that on our Instagram this week as well so folks can see it right there.
SB: Sounds good. Ah, doing the work.
CP: Doing the work.
SB: So that was related to last episode’s Dirt and Discourse. What else is on the docket? Like I have a list of topics in front of us, but like what, what else do we want to mention next?
CP: So not to talk about Criminal Minds even more—
SB: —I was really going to see if we were going to go for it.
CP: I thought you were just teeing it up for me but ok. And this actually can just be a short mention, but several people, you know, we've been mentioning that many of you are also watching Criminal Minds. Several people sent us this video from @FatFabFeminist. Um, just further discussing and unpacking the, uh, relationship between Garcia and—oh, my God. Why can't I think of the name of Shemar Moore’s character?
SB: Morgan! Derek Morgan! Are you even a fan? Did you even watch the episode?
CP: Wow. What a brain fart. Well, now that he's not on anymore in the final seasons, it's hard for me to be remembering him!
SB: Sure, sure.
CP: Yeah. Um, I don't, we don't need to go into it too much, I guess, but unless you have any specific thoughts, just that yeah, we're here for the things that @FatFabFeminist issharing.
SB: There's another, okay. So I did not do my homework for this, but I just thought of it. There is somebody and maybe, you know, Cat, um, on Instagram or reels or TikTok who does, you know, fat people in media who weren't actually fat. You know what I'm saying?
CP: Rosie! Yeah. That Rosie Beme?
SB: So it’s RosieBeMe. But it looks like Beme.
CP: Yep.
SB: And so they do this constant like review of different shows or movies, and I feel like Penelope Garcia is cast as this fat character—and maybe is, at points, I don't know—but it's just, there is this very, chemistry-laden relationship with one of the characters, one of the most attractive characters and they're all attractive people, right? On a TV show.
CP: So many guys on on that show could get it. So many people on that show could get it, let's be frank.
SB: Um, but like somebody, so it was @FatFabFeminist who did a post just saying like, we all hoped for that relationship to come to fruition and it never did. And I mean, I think it's because she was fat and they couldn't allow that to happen on the show, but.
CP: I agree. Without giving too much away, there are like, as you come to the very end of the season, there are some things, not that, but like, related to that, that are worthy of discussion, which seriously is like one of the top five things I can't wait to talk to you about once you've finished the series, Saraya.
SB: All right. Post haste. Got it. Noted. We’ll work on it.
CP: And it's Rosie Blair. You're right though. Rosie Beme is the, is the handle. And that's why I've always thought her last name was Beme. Sorry, Rosie.
SB: Sorry, Rosie.
CP: I’m gettin’ everything, I’ve been gettin’ a lot of names a little messy, this time, sorry to everyone.
SB: Sorry ro all these people. It's fine. It's all fine.
CP: A name that I will get right ‘cause I have the, her first and last name written here. Um, a little shout out to a local plus-sized gal, Hillary Klein, who was—who's local to the Twin Cities—um, and is one of 10 people that were selected for an upcoming Torrid modeling campaign. And it's just really fun to see a Midwestern gal, you know, a local and a campaign like that. Also all of the other people who were selected to seem really, really, really awesome too, so like, shout out to them as well. Um, yeah. So go Hillary! Excited to see you in, um, that upcoming Torrid campaign.
SB: That's wonderful. I mean, that's how I feel when I see, like the original, big girl dancers with Lizzo or like Grace from Duluth, like just like yes. Represent, come through. So congratulations, Hillary.
CP: And also as a side note, Hillary has short hair, and I love short hair and I just don't feel like we see enough people modeling that have short hair. And so I'm just like, that's like an extra level of like, oh yeah, um, about her getting selected for that.
SB: Wonderful. Oh, that's so exciting. Um, you know, what is not exciting?
CP: What?
SB: Trying to find fat-friendly outdoor seating.
CP: Oh my gosh. Isn't that? Isn't that the truth? Wasn’t it Andrea Sanow out who in her interview said, like, “That's just like one of the perennial thing?”. Like she like equated it to, you know, her parents talking about like the price of milk, you know? It really is just always a topic of conversation isn’t it?
SB: I think, especially now that people—I know people have been going to restaurants, I know, but like, in my reality, outdoor patio moments, this is the time to shine, um. It’s summer, and also just like COVID-consciousness. It's easier to be outside. And I think we were actually—well not we, let's give it up for assistant Lindsay who's planning a Matter of Fat hangout.
CP: For our little team.
SB: Yeah, for our little team. And so just constrained like, oh, where are the places we want to go? What have we enjoyed? What do we want to try? And then just always thinking like, hmm, is it going to be comfortable? Like, is it going to be a space where, um, you know, I sit down and I'm not concerned about a chair breaking? Uh, and also just like how flimsy chairs are everywhere at all times, because it's not a cost that I think a lot of businesses want to put money into. Um, but yeah, so that is just on our radar these days.
CP: Yeah. And I mean, we do not yet live in a world where universal design is widely adopted. So I feel like it will be a problem that we run into for awhile. Um, and uh, you know, to that end, we wanted to talk a little bit about like what we do, and what we folks around us might do to suss out, like, if a place has seating that's going to work for you or not, specifically related to dining outdoors.
So one thing I think that can be helpful is, we have a little local Facebook group called Twin Cities Fat Community, and I know that there are other parts of, you know, different communities around the country and maybe world that have things like this. And I have found that that's like one of the most reliable resources for feedback on seating, and really all fat things, but seating is one of them. Um, so want to just encourage local folks to consider being part of that group, or if you are not local to the Twin Cities, um, to think about what that kind of, finding a group like that, or creating a group like that, where you live.
You know, Saraya, there have been some apps created, like for this purpose, but actually like, as I was, as we were thinking about talking about this topic, I was googling ‘cause I was like, “That one, I think I know the name and then the other one,” and those that I found, like didn't really seem to be in existence or like any kind of circulation anymore. Um, which is disappointing, but also like without funding for these things, I can understand how that might happen.
SB: Mhmm. I just, yeah, I think if we're gonna do a callback to Andrea's episode too, is very much a call to action for non-fat folks, allies, and friends to be like, how often are you checking, um, on accessibility, just in general for the seating areas?
And then if you can check, great. And also like if you can leave a review, even better. Because I think that is a direct call to action for a lot of um, businesses just to see what does it mean for me to make a comfortable environment for everyone to come here and partake. So, yeah.
CP: And I, I think you probably, I think you alluded to this earlier. It's just like, I feel like, for many businesses, it's just like, not on their mind.Which is iIncredibly unfortunate and like, that is not acceptable. Um, but if you, if, if we, as people are able to like, you know, bring that to people's minds—and especially if you are not someone who requires like a large seat, if you don't live in a larger body and want to advocate for those of us who do—it can be really powerful.
Someone reached out to me recently to share a little bit of a win in her life, and let me know that there's like this, I think it was like a coffee shop that she always goes to and was really eager to like sit outside, but was disappointed when none of the chairs worked for her. nAnd so she sent a really like, thoughtful and, you know, no shade if people do not have the capacity to do this, but this person was like, “This is important to me, I really like this place, I want to reach out to the owner and just share some information with them about like, why this is an issue and what they need to do better.” And it was really well, she told me, that it was really well-received by the owner, um, who was open to making some changes. And so, I guess I can't verify if those changes happened or not, but I know that the person who is, you know, in touch with me was a little, uh, maybe a little nervous to be sharing this information, but then was, um, pleased when it was received so positively from the owner. And like that's the way to do it, for owners of businesses to understand these things to offer a kind and thankful response, and then to do the action of, of changing and making, um, you know, developments to their business to make it more accessible for, for those of us who need it.
SB: I was just, as you were describing this, considering the intersections of all of this, right? Especially in service industry-related businesses in the Twin Cities, because there are a lot of like breweries right now that are under criticism due to sexual harassment or gender discrimination over the years. I know there's been a few coffee shops that have had issues over the years as well. It’s all like, coming to light. And so I think too, like, if you have the capacity or ability to reach out and say, “Hey, I do want to support your organization. Like, this is what is needed in order to do that,” and you get a kind thoughtful message. Well, that's a good indication that this is an organization that does actually care for you as well as potentially its employees, um, its business model. I think that's a lot to extrapolate, but I would be way more likely to go and visit that establishment than one that's like, no, that doesn't matter, or it doesn't receive a response.
Um, I also just think that it's probably hard for a business owner, because much like when we've talked about airplane seats and space, like, when restaurants are considering their bottom line, more seats, you have, the more money you make, and so I think that comes into play too, when trying to have as many seats as possible, maybe smaller ones and also like spending less money on it because it's outdoors.
CP: Let's not forget about the fat tax. Like, you know, chairs that are rated for higher weight capacities are more expensive.
SB: Right, right. Exactly.
CP: You know, I think for many of us it's like, well, yeah, of course we have to invest in those things. But for people who haven't had to make those decisions feel can feel, probably feel like, “Why would I pay three times as much, you know, for this, if I don't have to?” So, yeah, it's just a lot. And all of this tosay like, if you don't have the capacity to engage with businesses around this, especially if you are a fat person, like that is a-okay, you should not have to do that. But because of the state of the world we're in, if you do have the capacity, I think those things can be really powerful, and I hope that if you, if you do share that kind of feedback with folks, it is positively received.
SB: Yeah. So just kind of a rundown, like if you don't have that desire or need to do that, check in with Twin Cities Fat Community, or other local fat communities, um, to see if they have any suggestions. And then if you do want to take action, a Google review, a message to the organization, um, calling ahead for friends or yourself, just to feel comfortable, lots of different things you can do so that you can find some good seating, um, and enjoy your, enjoy your life as best as possible because that's really what it comes down to.
CP: Exactly. And also if one of these apps are, there's a group out here who wants to put something together like this, I just would love to hear about it. And I think it would really behoove us to, as we're able, support them with our dollars, if and when, um, a place can, can kind of put that information together for all of us,.I would just be so here for that.
SB: Oh, I would love a domino effect. Because like this episode, we're talking about a @SaucyEWest putting together that information, because—I mean, not because, this is not a one-to-one correlation of us talking about it—
CP: —It was really like timely, you know?
SB: I would just love for there to be an ongoing resource that pops up after everything that we talk about going forward. So I'm putting that out into the universe.
CP: What a great, oh my gosh. Like we're a little bit magic, or the podcast is a little—or no, let's be real—the fat community is a little bit magic. We’re not doing this. The people are magic.
SB: The people are magic, we’re just picking up on it.
CP: We're just staying tuned in! (Both laugh)
[THEME MUSIC FADES IN AND OUT]
SB: Another fun Fat Dish episode has come to an end.
CP: Thanks so much for spending time with us, y'all! Making this podcast for our lovely community is truly a delight.
SB: Yes it is. And you know, what else is a delight to bring to you all? Our monthly Podlucks! Join us for our August Podluck on Thursday, August 5th at 6:00 PM cCntral time, the day after this episode comes out. So Cat and Lindsay are hosting and we're discussing an episode of The Big Calf Podcast. Um, B-I-G-C-A-L-F, and details, and the Zoom RSVP are on our website.
CP: They sure are, along with all of the Matter of Fat info you could ever desire. Visit www.matteroffatpod.com where you'll find show notes, transcripts, info about Matter of Fat, access to our older episodes and more! Okay, and now it's time for shout outs!
SB: Shout outs! We love shout outs. We have a shout out for Hareyoh, H-A-R-E-Y-O-H, who left us a wonderful five-star review on Apple Podcasts. Thank you, thank you, thank you. Your kind words really do mean so much. Um, I cannot describe it to you when I feel seen and heard in this project that we're doing, just get some good feedback. So thank you for that, and thank you to all the other folks who have shared kind feedback. Um, we also love to give shout outs for Fat Cash contributions. Cat, tell the people about—
[CLIP OF THEME SONG SAYING '“MATTER OF FAT” CUTS IN, CUTS OUT]
CP+SB: —Cash!
CP: Fat Cash is the way you can show us some love and help fund the pod! For the four seasons we've been operating, we've taken on pod expenses ourselves, including our assistant stipends. Okay but, we are excited to report that the Fat Cash that you've sent our way, coupled with payment that we received for a workshop Saraya and I facilitated, we are only $70 away from covering our assistant stipends this season. Whoop!
SB: Oh, my gosh, thank you to everyone for your support! Um, including Fat Cash, shout outs, all that. And we're grateful for the opportunity to present on anti-fat bias to our communities. Um, and we so appreciate being able to leverage our knowledge to help organizations be more conscientious and consider it in their inclusionary practices and provide some financial support to our assistants for their talent. That means a lot.
CP: Of course. Yeah. So if you'd like to send some Fat Cash our way, you're welcome to do so via Venmo, find us there @MatterofFatPod. And of course we have all the details about, and of course we have all the details about fat cash on our website. Once we have stipends taken care of, we can start to use funds for other expenses, AKA pay ourselves back for all the things.
SB: Okay. Let’s not say all the things, maybe like a few things.
CP: Yes. As much as possible, I guess.
SB: Yes. As always, we welcome your support however you're able to show it. So please feel free to subscribe, rate and review the podcast wherever you catch Matter of Fat and share and tag us on social media. If you take us in your Instagram stories, we would love to reshare it.
CP: Until next time when we're back with another episode of—
CP + SB: —Matter of Fat!