S3M4 - MoF Mini: The Benefits of Being Fat - Transcript
Season 3 Minisode 4: The benefits of being fat
Release September 9th, 2020. For complete episode info, visit this page!
Saraya Boghani: Oh hey y’all! Welcome to a Matter of Fat Mini!
Cat Polivoda: It’s another fun minisode!
SB: It’s another fun minisode from a body positive podcast with Midwest sensibilities.
CP: We talk about a lot of different aspects of fat liberation on the pod, and in our full episodes, we have guests share their stories as a matter of fat. We also share some of our experiences, which is what we’re up to today.
We’re using this Matter of Fat mini to share ways our lives are better because we’re fat.
SB: You heard that, right? Like, what a wild concept! It is a rare occasion where people talk favorably about being fat—but, of course we’re here for it. Uh, before we get into the good stuff, we should probably introduce ourselves.
CP: It’s the polite thing to do!
Hi, I’m Cat Polivoda, a local fat feminist and shop owner.
SB: And I’m Saraya Boghani a fat, multiracial, Minneapolitan millennial.
CP: And we’re here to blow your mind with a hot take as—
CP+SB: —a matter of fat!
[TRANSITION MUSIC FADES IN, FADES OUT]
SB: So, in the interview episodes of Matter of Fat, we talk with guests about their stories as—you guessed it—a matter of fat. This often includes them sharing their memories of when they realized they were, in fact, fat.
CP: Or plus-size, or curvy, or chubby, or however they choose to identify. And, here’s the thing, anyone living in a fatphobic society—um, so all of us—has a story as a matter of fat.
SB: Exactly! And I would say that many of our guests have realized their fatness during their childhood or adolescent years. It’s also usually an external factor like bullying or differential treatment that has them realize that they’re not the same as everyone because of their body size. This tends to set the tone and enforce how we think of being fat—that it’s shameful, repulsive, an indicator of not belonging, and requires external policing. This narrative is prolific and horrific!
CP: Sure is. It’s ugly to think that we just accept the bullying or judgments placed upon us to the extent that some people never see beyond that.
So, we’re using this Matter of Fat mini to share a recent discussion that Saraya and I had about how our lives are actually better because we’re fat! And, of course, this is just one aspect of our stories as a matter of fat. If you’re interested in our full stories, as well as like background on how Saraya and I know each other, we share all about it in our very first episode.
SB: Yeah! It’s been a while since we recorded that and, I’ll be honest, my story as a matter of fat has changed since then, mostly because I feel comfortable saying “fat” and “I’m fat”. Acknowledging that reality opened my eyes to so many other facets of being fat and how they’ve actually made my life better.
CP: Oh I love that!
SB: Yeah! Alright so, just so y’all know, this is not a Buzzfeed listicle.
CP: Um, ok, but I wish it was! I love a listicle!
SB: (laughs) Nooo, Buzzfeed is trash. Like, “what’s one item sold exclusively at Amazon and Walmart that will make your life infinitely better?” Get outta here!
CP: Ok, those are gross, but y’know, I love a good Top 10 list of anything—or, a good Buzzfeed Frasier trivia roundup!!
SB: Uh, yup, those do exist. (Both laugh) Listen, a listicle is effective, I won’t deny it, but we’re your friends in the podcast business so let’s just talk about it instead.
CP: Ok.
SB: I’ll start us out. Ok, the first reason that being fat has made my life better is because my relationships at work and with friends and family are stronger, because people who don’t want to associate with me because of my size will tell on themselves.
CP: Yes!
SB: If your fatphobia shows, I can better assess how to have a conversation about it or decide that we don’t have to be close like that. It’s just not worth it.
CP: Yeah! People’s fatphobic comments show us who they are. And, to your point, sometimes if there’s a shared history, or shared values, or redeemable qualities that outweigh their fatphobic words or actions, it can be worth a conversation and kinda that educational investment. Ok but other times, it’s just a sign to run for the hills!
SB: She’s runnin’ folks!
CP: I am! I mean sometimes, that’s my plan! (Both laugh)
SB: I think in those moments, I often relish the power in surprising or scandalizing others too. Making them uncomfortable by taking away the insult that is being fat. I think some people roll with it really well, and some just cannot comprehend it. And I hope is that it creates a moment of dissonance for them to start questioning more about how they feel about fatness.
CP: I love that! And I mean, this is bold, but I’m gonna be bold: one could say that our whole fat lives are actively creating moments, those moments of dissonance for people that are kind of stuck with that worldview.
SB: Yes ma’am! That’s true, that’s true. Especially where we’re at with our fatness right now, anyways.
What else did we talk about? Tell the people.
CP: Oh ok, so, one of the largest impacts I think my fatness has on me is like, it’s allowed me to better see and understand systems of oppression.
SB: Yes. Say more.
CP: Living in a fat body has helped me understand what it feels like for people to hold strong stereotypes about you, simply for showing up a certain way. Being fat is just one of many identities of course, many identities that can be marginalized, but seeing first hand what that looks like for me and other fat folks has allowed me to more easily accept that systems of oppression exist, and believe others when they share when they’ve been stereotyped or have experienced oppression in any form.
And you know, I think being fat has just generally pushed me to be more critical of systems and what’s going on around me.
SB: Yes, critical thinking and development! I love it for us, I love it for everyone! We could all use a little bit more.
CP: That’s the truth.
SB: Right? So, after I learned about other systems of oppression, I could finally see how fatphobia interlocks beautifully in othering. So like, an example: in Layla Saad’s White Supremacy and Me, she notes that once you know about active oppression, you can’t really unsee it. Once you know what it looks like, once you understand why it exists, you can’t ignore it because you see it everywhere.
And that’s how it worked for me—now that I know what racial, gender, sexual, and disability oppressions look like, how could I not see the hallmark of fatphobic oppression all over my body and my life? You just can’t not.
CP: Yeah, and like, learning more about how these systems operate allow us to see how they intersect.
SB: Ok, so focusing on body size and presentation, it’s like a systemic opiate of the masses. Like, what are the things people should hyperfocus on so they don’t realize what else is going on above their heads?
CP: Oh yeah. I also think that being fat has made me more critical of the capitalist systems that tell us to change our bodies—you know, like the health and beauty industry, and the diet and weight loss industry. I mean, at the end of the day, they’re just like really happy to take our money with very little regard for the damage they’re doing. I think, for me, being unapologetically fat has encouraged me to be more blatantly critical of those systems.
SB: Yeah, yeah. I’ll say systemic oppression and anti-human capitalist systems are decidedly not chill or cute!
CP: Nope!
SB: Nope, not the vibe. However, being fat allows me to live more fully in the moment and be more chill.
CP: Ooh, let’s talk more about that!
SB: So, instead of waiting for a future season where, you know, that outfit will look great or finally fit, or I’ll look so good for those photos, instead of waiting for that and expecting that, I can do whatever I want now.
Like, I haven’t shaken the insecurities of being a fat person because we still live in the same world, but I also don’t deal with the overwhelming sense of self-disappointment when I don’t magically lose 50 pounds in 2 months for the 20th year in a row. (Both laugh) That was rough! Instead, I can joyfully process my emotions. I can be empathetic, or I can be sad, and I can really feel that based on everything outside my body and this weird cycle that I’ve set up for myself. Yeah, it’s really freeing!
CP: Yeah! I feel that too, and ya know, something that we’ve talked about a lot, you and I, is like the mental energy and literal time wasted in diet and weight loss attempts that are doomed to fail. There is, like, that freedom in taking back that time and energy and using it for more fulfilling and sustainable pursuits!
I’m like, a little bit of a busy bitch and kind of accomplished, and I would say that part of my “secret” to getting shit done is not logging calories on an app or spending more mental time than necessary worrying about what I eat or minor changes in my body.
SB: Do you think you could write, like, your version of The Secret? I never read The Secret, so I don’t know what it’s really about, maybe it’s about this? I don’t think it is, but I feel like—
CP: —(laughs) it’s not—
SB: —you should do Cat’s Secret. And it’s true like, “Don’t use MyFitnessPal.” That’s all it’ll just say. Just one page.
CP: I love that. No, The Secret, the book The Secret is about like, manifesting. And it’s like very sexy, but it also is like very dangerous. Because on the one hand—I mean, this is a whole another conversation—but on the one hand, I really like, some of the ideas of manifesting make sense to me, and on the other hand it’s like that meme that says—
SB (crosstalk): —”Is it privilege? Or was she born with it?”
CP (crosstalk): “Maybe it’s manifesting, maybe it’s white privilege.” (Both laugh)
EXACTLY! That’s exactly it, right? So people conflate like, your privilege, with just like wishing something to happen. So I guess there’s just like--that’s very complex, but man. I would write a book about my secrets to success, not counting calories is #1, but I don’t think it’d be, like, the Secret book.
SB: I’d buy your Secret book, just so you know. I’m not gonna buy the other one, but--
CP: Yeah, don’t do that.
SB: Mmk. Alright. So I guess we should get back to the conversation. And I know it’s kind of weird—
CP: —oh, ya know. (laughs)
SB: Maybe it’s time. Uh, it’s like a weird flex right now to mention economics, but I will say that us spending all this time thinking and dreaming about a body that isn’t the one we currently inhabit, like, it’s an opportunity cost. Why would I spend my time waiting or holding back when I could just be living? I’m not gonna fritter away my opportunities, y’all! Also, shoutout to Planet Money for making me smarter. Thanks.
CP: (laughs) I love your weird flexes, Planet Money, economics, it’s awesome.
But I also think an extension of this, and like something that’s gained from that freedom, is the ability to show up fully for myself and my life, y’know? Like, I’m not distracted with calorie counting or docile or weak from like, literally not nourishing myself. I’m here and present to fight the good fight!
SB: Yes, and I’m fortunate enough to be here with you! We have energy to be active participants in making the world a better place! More energy than we would if we were dieting or working to not be fat by any means necessary.
CP: Exactly. And another connection here—I’ll also say, this is something that does feel like more of a work in progress-type thing for me. But, being fat has allowed me to make a shift to a world where movement and eating is able to be connected to joy and feeling good, just by itself.
Because, for so many of us eating, and I would say exercise especially, is so closely connected to attempts to change our bodies. I think the goal is to like, totally disconnect them--which, like I said is still a bit of a process for me—but, even making that shift? I don’t even know if I would be here for that or ready for that or even THINKING about that if I wasn’t fat.
SB: Hmm, I agree with that, from my own lived experience. It’s hard to see the harm in something if you don’t experience the bulk of it. Not that you can’t, it just is more difficult. So like, an example: as a fat person, I go into a gym and I’ve gotten looks that seem to ask, like, “what are you doing here?” Maybe I’m perceiving that, maybe it really happened, I guess I didn’t ask anybody, I’m not confrontational like that, but it’s hard when you go in there and you get that judgement or perceived judgement but like, all of society is telling you that you should be working out at all times.
And so it’s like, what is the truth? What should I be doing? So then I posit, how about I just move my body because it feels good sometimes and sometimes it doesn’t? Why can’t I just derive joy from something and not use it as a prescriptive tool just because other people use it that way? That’s where I’m at with it.
CP: Exactly! Exactly.
SB: Mhmm. Okay Cat, we got to a really good part in our discussion as well. It’s time to go deep, my friend. Can we talk about our childhoods?
CP: Ok yes, and especially because when we were talking about this earlier, like, you sharing about your childhood made me have some aha moments about mine! So, I’m excited we’re going here.
SB: Dr. Boghani is listening. (Cat laughs) Just kidding, that was a Frasier reference, but I don’t watch Frasier—
CP: —We’ve had two Fraiser references in this episode so far and I could not be happier.
SB: I’m an enabler, and I am not a doctor, I just wanna be very clear about that. Don’t get it confused.
I would say that being fat as a child saved me from a lot of stuff. Like, what, what could you possibly say at this point? Well, I was already different than everyone else, so I think I kind of went towards this mindset of why try so hard to join them when I’m not? I’m just not going to. Like, my parents weren’t gonna buy me any outfits from Delia’s, but I also couldn’t fit into anything from there, so did I feel like I was missing out? Not really. I just kept it pushing with my Target performance fleece.
CP: Oh, I am just picturing lil’ 11-year-old Saraya in her purple performance fleece!
SB: Oh my God, how did you know it was a purple vest?! (Both laugh)
CP: I love it! Maybe I’m—you showed me a bunch of pictures when you were moving, I wonder if I had subconscious, you know what I mean, I just didn’t picture you as a child—
SB: —I incepted the fleece vest. I can’t.
So, other than that vest, another way that being fat saved me is that I was oblivious to the dramatic and romantic entanglements in middle and high school and looking back at it, thank goodness!
I got out of a lot of peer pressure, and was able to pursue things I was genuinely interested in, and I think it’s part to being fat, or due in part to being fat. I was already going to stand out as I shared earlier, as a non-white fat girl, so why not stand out for things I liked instead of trying to measure up to people I would never look or feel like?
CP: I LOVE that! And like, that standing out piece also, I feel like that’s part of what was going on for me. When I was—ok, when I was in high school, I was very weird. (Saraya laughs)
SB: I’m so excited for whatever you’re gonna say next.
CP: So like, and I think you’ve probably seen pictures of it. I was just very weird, especially my sense of style. So we’re talking like, mixing wild thrift shop patterned, I don’t know, repurposed mumus that I would pair with jeans that I painted, and I had this very short spikey haircut that I often cut myself. I just was, you know, it was a look. But I wonder, in looking back, if a big part of what that was all about was me recognizing that I was gonna stick out anyway, and so I just kind of really leaned into it.
SB: Sheryl Sandberg, eat your heart out! Also, I didn’t read that book, so like—
CP: I love Sheryl.
SB: Lemme tell on myself. (Both laugh)
CP: Yeah, I read some discourse about it, but I didn’t read that book.
Also, I will say too, if I’m being honest, this might have been my adolescent version of, you know, when people make self-deprecating jokes about themselves first, before others have the chance? I wonder if there was maybe an element of like, “Oh well if you’re gonna make me stick out cuz I’m different, great. Let me just really stick out for a lot of reasons that I can control.” I don’t know, so that was my little a-ha moment. But I think, however this went down, or whatever motivated it, it really worked out for me!
SB: Yeah, I feel like adolescence is a lot about lacking control and it’s kinda interesting that we both decided to just step out of other people’s expectations. As much as I stood out for the things I did in high school, I think fatness also generated some anonymity. We’re talking about how much we stood out, but there is a level of being overlooked as a fat person and it’s my personal belief that that can also allow for a certain level of safety.
CP: Yeah, I would agree with that! And it’s weird how it’s like, it’s both, right? Like, you’re both hyper-visible and also like, kind of invisible. But in terms of safety, yeah, I think I would agree with that.
SB: Yeah I mean, as a woman, I’ve internalized the belief that I’m not safe going through the world but being fat, while not ignoring that it brings its own sort of external and internal violence to the table, I do think it also allows for some different freedoms.
And like Cat’s saying, it’s complex, like maybe you’re thinking “what are they even talking about?” Like, how fatness is treated in this society. Ok, I could be walking down the street and not get the same sexual harassment that another person does and would say, in part, it’s due to my fatness, ‘cuz that’s a lived experience I’ve had.
Also, people are just gonna be trash. I get that it’s not only excluded to my fatness—or, exclusive to my fatness. I also think that I take up more space, so that may indicate to someone that I’m not to be messed with. And it’s complicated, but I don’t feel as objectified as other women—which, I mean, has had its own grieving process—but that has saved me from a lot of other heartbreak and worry in life.
CP: I feel so much of that. Like I’ve always, I don’t know, experienced a sense of safety in having a larger body. And like, not to reduce it to, you know, people say like, “Fat people are harder to kidnap,” (Saraya laughs) which, eyeroll. But I always have felt just a little safer knowing that someone would have to work a little bit harder to physically overpower me. And perhaps this is all in my head, but I certainly do have at least some level of a “don’t fuck with me” vibe, because generally people don’t, so whether this is a false sense of security or not, I think that living in a larger body helps me embody that “don’t fuck with me” vibe.
SB: Hmm, I’ve definitely felt that and also recognize that being fat, while we feel it does have its own brand of superpower, doesn’t preclude us from violence or other harmful factors. Like, fat people are harmed. But, if you’ve been paying attention, we’re talking about the good stuff in this episode y’all.
CP: Yes! And, as we’re coming to the end of this robust list-icle—
SB: —No!—
CP: —(laughs) I’d be remiss to not mention one of the most positive ways my life has been impacted by being fat, which is like, my literal job and business! So being a plus-size consumer allowed me to understand firsthand the gaps in the market and then create a business to meet those fat needs. And, through my business, connecting with other fat people about everything but with fashion as a way into those conversations, has just been—I mean, I cannot overstate how much of a gift it is. It’s just been incredible.
SB: I would say, tangentially to that, my life is so much better for having this podcast, so there ya go!
CP: Yes!
SB: I mean it’s generated so much—like, our friendship is stronger because of it, I have come to know other people better because of it, and really have seen a tangible community out of this.
When we embarked upon this project, I truly didn’t know what to expect. I expected vitriol, because, you know, when you talk about fatness, what do you hear in the world? Like, violence, obviously. But I’ve had amazing conversations with rad insightful people, I’ve been able to travel to new places and honestly I’ve experienced a level of fun and comfort in the world that I hadn't before, and I wouldn’t have if I wasn’t fat.
CP: Oh, agree agree agree! All of that great Matter of Fat stuff. If I wasn’t fat, I wouldn’t have a podcast called Matter of Fat—
SB: —ain’t that the truth. (Both laugh)
CP: Truly! And all of these beautiful moments we’ve had over the last two and a half years wouldn’t be part of my world!
SB: So what about you, the listener? At home, or wherever you are.
CP: Everyone out there, listening to us or reading our transcripts.
SB: Right! We hope this minisode can help you consider how fatness has made your life better.
[TRANSITION MUSIC FADES IN, FADES OUT]
SB: So, there you have it! All rhe expose on why being fat has made our lives better!
CP: A listicle!
SB: God--gosh darn it, sure, a listicle. Why not?
CP: Oh, but do you want an actual listicle? I’ll give you a listicle: Top 10 Reasons to Visit www.matteroffatpod.com:
1) Transcripts,
2) Episodes,
3) RSVP to our Podlucks,
4) Show notes.
Five—
SB: Okay enough, enough, I’ve indulged this enough. I let it go on for far too long. (Cat laughs) Ok, if you’d be so kind, please subscribe to Matter of Fat on whatever platform you get your podcasts. I cannot believe you just did a listicle.
CP: (laughs) Tune in next time for another episode of--
CP+SB: —Matter of Fat!
[OUTRO MUSIC FADES IN, ABRUPTLY CUTS OFF]
CP: (in a Tom Shane voice) Now you have friends in the podcast business! (Saraya yells laughing) Matter of Fat. In the Twin Cities at the at the crossroads of fat liberation and body positivity. Open on any podcast app and releasing every other Wednesday. Online at Matteroffatpod.com.
SB: Oh my God, that was so good.
CP: That’s my Tom Shane! I had a little—
SB: Now you have friends in the podcast business. (Cat laughs) Matter of Fat. In the Twin Cities, at the crossroads of fat liberation and body positivity. Open in any podcast app and releasing every other Wednesday. Online at matteroffatpod.com.
CP: Yours is WAY better than mine!
SB: No no no, yours is really good!
CP: That was SO good.
SB: I also like, shouted at the beginning of yours, so I’m sorry, it was just so funny. You did really well.
CP: (laughing hysterically) That’s ok, that’s ok.
SB: Now you have friends in the podcast business.
CP: Now YOU have friends in the podcast business.
[OUTRO MUSIC RESUMES, FADES OUT]
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