S4E3 - Fat Dish: irl anxiety, “guilt free,” + Rutherford Falls- Transcript
Released on May 12th, 2021. For complete episode info, visit this page!
[THEME MUSIC FADES IN AND FADES OUT]
Cat Polivoda: Welcome to Matter of Fat, a body positive podcast with Midwest sensibilities.
Hi, I'm Cat Polivoda, a local fat feminist, shop owner, and I'm still in my besties baby bubble. I’m joined by my co-host and producer Saraya Boghani.
Saraya Boghani: What a tongue twister! That was beautiful. (Both laugh). Hi everyone. I'm Saraya, I'm a fat multiracial Minneapolitan millennial who is fully vaxxed and is completely unprepared to party. (Cat laughs)
CP: On Matter of Fat, we're here to talk about the cultural politics of fat liberation with a Midwest perspective.
SB: And this, dear podcast friend, is a Fat Dish episode where we dish about our fat lives. Um, you can catch a more traditional episode of Matter of Fat, where we'll interview someone fabulous, in two weeks or listen to some previously released excellent content.
CP: Yes. Okay, but do stick around because in this episode we share some behind the scenes info about the podcast. We will chat about personal details and intrigues and take on cultural happenings. As—
CP + SB: A Matter of Fat!
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SB: Okay, you heard it here folks, behind the scenes podcast information Cat do tell, do tell.
CP: Okay. Let's start with something that is admittedly a little anticlimactic, um—
SB: —Wow, what a way to start.
CP: Well, I'm feeling quite excited about it and a little bit accomplished. Um, so. Cutting edge info: earlier today on the day of recording, I released our first Instagram TV video thing of one of our minisodes from last season, and I'm very excited about it!
SB: As you should be. It's actually quite cool. And I would probably put in, like, edit in some applause right now, but I don't think I will. And that it would be a rude awakening for people who are listening. But what you did is pretty fabulous. Can you tell the people more about what exactly it is?
CP: Sure, sure. And I also need to mention that one of our assistants for Matter of Fat, Erin, um, helped a great deal with this project as well.
So we made, um, I mean, everyone knows what I'm talking—well, many people probably know what we're talking about. You know, like when you're on Instagram and you see like, um, you know, like a logo for a podcast and the little up-and-down of the audio, and then you hear something.
Well, um, the program we use to make those is called Wavve and we thought it would be cool if we used that, um, that kind of software stuff to do our minisodes from last season. Remember we did one on fat liberation, one on body positivity, one on fatphobia and then another on diet culture. We thought that if we put those in our IGTVs, they could be easily shared and listened to, um, and kind of viewed. And so that's what we did and I'm feeling it.
SB: I'm feeling the synergy here. I gotta tell ya, repurposing content and new concepts, like what are we? SEO mavens—I don't even know what that means, what is SEO, I just hear it bandied about. I know you know--
CP: —Well, I mean, it isn’t totally qualified for Instagram. And also as of this moment, the views are still pretty low, but—
SB: —We are content creators, you released it today!
CP: I mean, yeah. Well, and I just think it's nice. Like, it just, it allows folks another way to share that kind of, um, not supplementary, but like the like—
SB: —Educational content—
CP: —On like on a basic level, like we talk about fat liberation all the time, but like to have, you know, 12 minutes of like, “Here's exactly what this is, here's the history of this movement.” I mean, we were really excited to put those Minisodes together and it feels really nice to have another way to share them with folks.
SB: Yeah. And actually the synergy here is multi-leveled right. Like, welcome. Welcome to my corporate comedy is what we're experiencing right now. I apologize everyone. Am I right ladies? Don't—okay.
But like the actual synergy that I'm talking about is because the information that we put together last year in our minisodes that was really diving into like the one-on-one, the history, the impact, you know, like, what the future could look like related to some of these topics we actually get to share, um, as part of an educational experience with Capella University in a little bit.
CP: Yeah!
SB: So last year we were at DePaul University and we got to have a similar conversation that was really fabulous with friend of the podcast, Mykall, um, kind of linking us into that conversation, but I'm super excited to go to Capella and just talk about anti-fat bias, uh, body positivity, fat liberation, uh, diet culture, all that good stuff. And we are just so wonderfully ready to leverage all the content that we made last season.
CP: Yeah. It was really fun putting all of that—like, we put a deck together, right, but it's like, so, um, deeply rooted in the content of these minisodes and we really like, researched a lot for those minis. So it's nice to be able to pull on that information and then have these resources that we can share more publicly. So really, really excited about that.
SB: Yeah, it's almost like we've been talking about this stuff for three years!
CP: For three years, fancy that! (Both laugh)
Um, okay. We also should note, Saraya, that Capella is like an inter—there will be people from not only the us, but around the world, potentially tuning into our virtual presentation with them.
SB: Absolutely. Yeah. So I guess it's not just Capella, it's Capella University, it's Strayer University and Torrens, which is based out of, uh, Australia and New Zealand. So we are international!
CP + SB: International!
SB: (Singingly) Jason Derulo.
SB: Ooh, we won't get sued for that, will we?
CP: No, not unless we play it, which we won’t.
SB: Do you think Jason listens?
CP: Jason does not listen out of all the celebrities that may listen, highly doubtful.
SB: I don't like how you're anti-manifesting this for us, but that's okay. I will say it's pretty cool. I'm just looking at our insights for the podcast—not specifically to our talk with, um, Capella and other institutions—but, um, we have listeners everywhere.
We obviously have quite a few in the U.S., quite a few; Canada; the U.K.; Australia; New Zealand; Germany—
CP: —(gasps) Germany?
SB: Yeah, of course. Germany. Yes.
CP: Wow. My heart is so full. That's like our, the, the highest ranked non-English speaking country, right?
SB: That’s the first one that's non-English speaking.
CP: Yeah. I mean, of course many Germans do speak English, but wow. I just, there's a sense of pride right there. I'm into that.
SB: It's pretty cool. It's pretty cool, running down, and also it's interesting. The, um—for our insights, they mentioned the Russian Federation is listening. Uh, I didn't realize that it was still, Russia was referred to as the Russian Federation. It's also a thing.
In any case, y'all, we are international and we appreciate you, if you are listening within any of the countries we've mentioned or elsewhere, because there are a lot of countries on here. Also a lot of cities all across the U.S. and so we appreciate you. Quite a bit.
CP: I just love this so much because like we are, you know, rooted in the Midwest and also we hope that what we're making can really resonate with folks all over our country and world.
And it sounds like it is, right? If we have folks tuning in from all those places. So yeah, just to reiterate, thanks, thanks to everyone who is part of our audience and a special thanks to folks who are outside of the U.S.
SB: Yeah. Another way that we are kind of extending beyond the bounds of the Twin Cities is through our Podlucks, which we talk about all the time. Why wouldn't we be talking about it now?
CP: Um, well, uh, our upcoming Podluck is, um, tonight after we record!
SB: In the past!
CP: In the past. So when you live in the past, in the past, in the past, so you listen to this, um, you maybe will have gone to it and seen us there. Uh, but for now, I'm just, I'm like, really excited for tonight's Podluck, Lindsay and Erin are hosting.
Um, and then our next one will be, it's always the first Thursday of the month. So as I say that, I don't actually have the date top of mind.
SB: That's okay.
CP: It's the first Thursday of the month.
SB: It's a good general knowledge there.
CP: Saraya, remember we messed up the date on that one thing in season one, and we had to like, voice dub it back in?
SB: You loved that, but it was very good.
19. It is the 19th. We’ve come such a long way. Um, that's why we're a little bit more careful first Thursday of the month. And yeah, I already know it's going to be a banger of a potluck because Lindsay is fabulous, Erin is fabulous, I am super excited. It's a good time. It's a good time.
CP: Um, I'm trying to think of any other Podluck related—or, excuse me—podcast related updates, which I guess maybe just one more, uh, mention one more.
SB: Just one more, the people are hungry for it. They need it.
CP: Well, they have, because y'all have been asking us for so long if you can help contribute monetarily to Matter of Fat, and so we found a way for you to do that. We started a little Venmo, um, and several folks have already sent us a little Fat Cash there. Um, and we're just so appreciative of it.
We will save the Fat Cash shout out till the end of the episode. Um, but know that if you have the means to send us anything, um, as like a little thank you and support for the pod, we would love—gladly accept. We'd love that. And, um, for your trouble, we would be so happy to shout you out here on Matter of Fat.
SB: And like that, that, those funds go directly to our assistants, go directly to costs of, uh, hosting, hosting the podcast.
CP: Transcription software—which, uh, the calendar told me our Descript renews next week, so.
SB: Yep. Fun fact, we use Descript for transcription. So yeah, anything is totally appreciated, not required in any shape or form, but we, we love y'all and we appreciate that you want to support us in that way.
So, yeah. And also you don't have to hear us, do you know, like, “As a supporter of a Matter of Fat it's this time of year where we bring you,” like, we're not going to dive into those like membership drive situation, although I think we were veering pretty close to it a month ago.
CP: Yeah.
SB: Okay. Let's swerve on that. Let's get into the personal things. You said “intrigues” earlier, and I'm really curious.
CP: Ok, Saraya I said intrigues earlier, you wrote intrigues for me. So the real question is what do you have to say? That's intriguing, because I don't know if I have anything to say that's intriguing.
SB: Oh, we have a podcast. It's gotta be good for the people. I hope, I hope y'all find this intriguing. I don't know.
CP: You start off, you start off. What, what kind of, um, things that have been coming up for you lately?
SB: In pure Minnesotan fashion: it’s spring, everybody welcome to my weather report, where I just tell you what season it is. But honestly, I looked out my window two days ago and all of a sudden there were leaves on every tree. Like fully-formed leafed-out leaves, not little buds. Um, it was just very surprising and also wonderful to see. So I'm very into spring except for the pollen. It really, really knocked me out this weekend. I don't even know what I'm allergic to, but I'm popping Allegras.
CP: Yep. As you do. Something about getting older, man, it's like those allergies just hit, they just hit you differently.
SB: It just hits different, you know. Um, uh, I also, like, what else? What else? Okay. So I am also—this is aging contact, I guess, is that I started doing embroidery, which is not, not to say that only older individuals do embroidery.
I just associate it with like, older folks and like an art form that maybe resides. Uh, in popularity with older people, but I don't think that's true anymore. I know a lot of people do it.
CP: I think it's really coming back. I think folks of all ages are doing it. And you showed me a little bit of the one you were working on and it was so lovely.
SB: I mean, it's very, very easy. Cause you know, I, I'm a slight perfectionist. And so if it's not doable, I'm not going to do it in the first place, but I'm actually really impressed. Well, it turned out quite nice and we have a nice little Mother's day present. So Jan, if you’re listening, you already got it, because it already arrived.
CP: Do you think you're going to take on more projects then, after this gift is finished?
SB: Yeah, the kit I got had two, so definitely another one. And also it's just like, very meditative, like picking a color, choosing the stitch. It's almost, um, yeah, meditative. It has to be, because like there's a sensory piece to it too, of just like feeling it work and work through the, the fabric. And I don't know, you see an immediate result, which is really satisfying too. I don't know.
CP: This reminds me: once, one winter in high school, I spent like the entire winter knitting scarves in my room while I listened to audiobooks. But it was like cassette tape, audiobook at the time
SB: The origin story of Cat’s audiobooks, obsession right now.
CP: I’ve always loved audiobooks. Um, but like I just, and it's exactly what you described. Like you can like feel it, it's like a good, like—you know, your mind can be elsewhere, but like your, but also very like grounded in that. And then you get to see this like cool stuff you make right away. So I love that you have this project. That's awesome.
SB: Yeah. I mean, couple that with like very long walks, I'm just crushing it. And as I age, I like, I'm very into simple, peaceful things and I think it is a direct result of the pandemic and it's probably going to linger with me for a long time. So that's one plus that's out of all of this, so, yeah. Um, but anyways, I don't know.
CP: It's funny you say like, simple, peaceful things, cause I know you've been watching on TV and that's not simple or peaceful. (Both laugh).
SB: Okay. Yeah, no, no. That's a really good point.
CP: There’s just a real pivot over here.
SB: I need simple, peaceful things because the other things I do with my free time are horrific. Um, and by that, I mean, I've started watching Criminal Minds for the first time ever. And I am like, season six’in, like, it’s been a few weeks and I really, I made it here.
I actually got my second vaccine last weekend and I got hit. I got hit pretty hard. Um, not like awful, but it just like, it was pathetic, I was pathetic. So I had Criminal Minds on, in the background and at one point I like woke up out of my stupor. It was like somebody screaming and I'm like, I can't.
CP: No, you can't sleep to that. It's not a good fall-asleep show. It's a captivating show. But not for falling asleep.
SB: No, it's not. But I love it. And I also think it's probably messing with my frame of mind. Just like anybody who listens to true crime podcasts or loves documentaries. I just, like, how much is this taxing our mental health? Um, and also, why are we so obsessed with it? I do not know.
CP: Well, so, you mentioned that you were getting into it and I just, like, several people I follow on Instagram have been really into it, and so I started rewatching it. And I actually realized, like I had watched maybe seasons, like, one through eight before. Well, Netflix tells me that I've like seen, like, maybe eight of the seasons so far, but the newer ones I haven't seen.
So, you know, as you do, I started from the beginning. Um, but, but you know, it does make me feel—it's just like, if I let my head go there, it's like a little more nervous about stuff. And I have to remind myself, like, this is not—you know how they're like, you know, tackling some serial killer every other day. And it's like, that's not actually how it is in real life, you know? But Saraya—
SB: Every weekend they get called away though. They're all ready to go get burgers. And they're like, “No, we gotta, gotta go get the serial killer.” In three days, we're going to find it somehow.
CP: And it's just wild, but you know Saraya, I always thought you were a little more, like, cautious about, like, your surroundings and stuff than I was. And I wonder, do you think some of that is influenced by, like, participation in like, these kinds of shows?
SB: You know, maybe, but also, probably not.
Uh, because for instance, the other day it's nice out, right? And so I was like, oh, and actually I dropped stuff off to you that day. And I was like, oh, it was actually too hot. I hated it. It was like—
CP: —That's what you said when you dropped stuff off. You're like, this is horrible.
SB: Give me like, a longer spring, I don't need summer yet. We're not ready. I'm not mentally prepared. In any case, um, I was wearing cute dress, like a little bomber jacket, some cute sneaks that you actually gave me.
And I was like walking down the street to my car and then immediately not this, somebody started honking at me. Yeah. Cat-calling me. And I was like, God bless it. I just, like the world is healing and I hate it. Like, this is what it's like. And so I think that, maybe, informs it more than anything else. Um, just the real lived experiences, you know?
CP: Yeah.
SB: But maybe, but maybe.
CP: I just remember, like you, you had the—like a lot of questions for me, my safety for like, exiting the shop when I'm there alone. And I was like, you sound like my dad, Saraya.
SB: Listen, your dad and I are on it. Well, no, just because of my previous management and like, yeah. Having to know, like, policy and protocol and also just cause like, small businesses get hit. Like that's an easy thing—
CP: And they do, but I never have personally. And let's hope to keep it that way.
SB: Yes, knock on wood.
CP: Yeah. I am a lot more thoughtful about like, my personal safety things now than I was like, when I first opened, because you just don't know. It's like when there is to your point, like when there's like policies and protocols, you abide by those. But like when you're responsible for making your own, it's like, oh, what do I need to do? You know?
SB: Yeah. Yeah. I mean, I, you know what, your question’s valid though. Probably probably. Feeds into it quite a bit.
CP: But also like, oh, I just, it's so easy to get wrapped up in those shows and I love them, and I'm finding myself like, so, like, just invested in the lives of these characters who are fictitious people, you know?
SB: And also, Shemar Moore is very beautiful.
CP: Especially season one, you know, I watch we've probably, I don't know if we've discussed this amidst the podcast, but copaganda unfortunately is like, a genre that I really get sucked into. Um, and I know it's trash, but I watched that show SWAT that he's in and he's like older now. Um, but man, I just like that man has been just so attractive for the last 30 years. Like he's just doing it.
SB: And I think there's, we had a really interesting conversation about like fat representation, ‘cause there is a character who is like, you know, plus-size—
CP: —Curvy—
SB: —Curvy. Yeah. And some really interesting, like, lack of talking about fatness and then also upholding some anti-fat bias quite a bit. Like, it's just interesting to watch those dynamics play out in a show that is pretty dated, especially in season one. Um, but also like, I don't remember any shows having like any non-thin actors at that time. I mean probably, I mean, Gilmore Girls, maybe.
CP: Yeah yeah yeah. Yeah. And it's just like, we were kind of talking about this over texts. It's like the, actually some things—so I made a comment in one of our Podlucks—wow, I'm really going there. This is—if you might allow me to go on a tangent.
SB: We are here. This is our show.
CP: Okay. So buckle up. There's like three stages to this.
So at a Podluck we were talking about, I don't know what prompted this. We were talking about, um, fat representation in media and, um, someone brought up Donna from Parks and Rec. I love Donna. I think Retta who plays on—it is so cool. I always have loved Donna's character and I always thought it was great how, like she was fat, but like, just so it was, it was, I felt like it was not something that was like laughed at, you know, and there's then there's like, you know, Gary, Jerry Ghergich who everyone laughs at, due in large part because he's fat.
Um, but then someone said like, I don't know whose comment it was, but someone was like, kind of pushed back and was like, ”Oh, I actually thought that these things that happened to Donna are like, actually people making fun of her.” And I was just like, (gasps) is everything a lie? Like, do I just, do I take this in, in this way? Because I'm fat? And because like, it doesn't seem funny for me cause like that's kind of who I'd be if I was on this show, you know, that kind of thing.
Um, And so I was also taking that lens to think about Garcia on Criminal Minds. It's like the things that happen here, I feel like it's pretty, like matter of fact, and, and sweet and like, it's kind of cute how her and Morgan, like, flirt all the time.
And to me that feels like, very like, normal, and like authentic and like, but I wonder if it was written or if it, some people, it comes across as like, “Ha ha ha. They're only flirting like that because they'd never be together because she's fat.”
SB: Yeah. It's not like her personality trait, it's because—yeah. This big joke that's being played on. Right.
CP: Right. And know, like I just, I—there's so many, it's like the more you interrogate these things the like less, you know, and the more you second guess all of these like media representations that have been part of the shows that you've loved.
SB: Something good that they did is because they had so many seasons to run with it, this, so they actually have to develop the characters for better or worse.
And so you do see this interesting dynamic and relationship based on respect, developing from all the people on the show. I think that's why I like it, right?
Like it's okay—okay. We talk about this a lot. So you want to talk about The Office. You want to talk about like, uh, the burning Bon Appetit Test Kitchen situation.
It's all about like a workplace, workplace sitcom, like your environment, like where people genuinely like each other, or they, like, actually develop these really interesting relationships with their coworkers. I don't know if it's healthy on Criminal Minds, it’s pretty codependent. Cause they're dealing with some really ridiculous stuff.
Um, but yeah. It's like, these people actually care about each other and that pushes the show forward as well as, um, the crimes that are constantly happening, the really awful horrendous things. And, um, I don't know, maybe we could create another podcast recapping Criminal Minds, but we've talked a lot about this.
CP: Oh, I was just gonna say, like, we have so many things, including some like fat media stuff to talk about, but here we are just gabbin’ about Criminal Minds. Okay.
SB: Well let's, uh, I mean, what else, what else did you want to talk about? Maybe we can, we can pivot into something else
CP: I can be real quick and dirty with my updates.
SB: Um, oh, right. All right. We got the explicit content rating.
CP: It’s because I'm excited to talk about more of these other media things we have on deck. Um, so, uh, things new in my world, as I mentioned at the top, I'm still in my besties baby bubble. They have now had their baby and she's just so perfect. Um, and, so proud of my best friends, they are just like, incredible, parents and they are working so hard.
And like, of course I knew that like, you know, newborns were a lot of work or whatever, but I've never been like in close proximity day after day after day to a family that just has had a newborn come into it, you know? And it's like, oh my God, just a lot. You know, it is, um, it's just wild, how this little human just, which doesn't have any kind of routine, like dictates all of what's happening.
Um, and they've just been working so hard and are doing so well. And it's been so fun for me to get to spend time with them and the baby and just be in their bubble. It's been so great.
SB: That's very sweet. She's such a sweetie. And it's so cool for you to take the time and get to witness life in the midst of so much panic and other things this last year. Well, that's pretty precious.
CP: Even though I'm fully vaxxed, ut's really—I'm very locked down still, because this little baby isn't vaxxed, right. And so, um, that's why I've, you know, I'm calling it the, the bubble. It's provided a sense of comfort for me too, ‘cause it's like, there's just a lot of, um, it, it just feels like really overwhelming to be like, “Oh, you’re vaxxed now, snap your fingers, you can go back to all these things.” It's like, I'm not ready to do that.
And I—it's hard for me to navigate that or think about navigating that. And so there's been like, a comfort about being, you know, in knowing, even though I'm vaxxed, I'm still going to be like laying real low for a few more weeks. I've been, I've been enjoying that.
SB: That's very good. And also, can we bring up a friend of the podcast and previous guest Andrea's tweet that we were talking about the other days?
CP: Totally. Yeah. That totally relates to this.
SB: So Andrea Sanow is an amazing person, a real delight, please go back and listen to that interview with her.
CP: Just the best.
SB: Um, but it was interesting. I saw this tweet that she made and I talked to Cat and Cat's like, yeah, I saw that too, weird. Cause we're friends with her, surprise, surprise. We all saw the same tweet. But it's pretty poignant. And I'd like to just, you know, read to you, um, right now.
And so, Andrea tweeted:
“The thing about being fat and okay/happy/neutral with and about your body is that everyone (thin people) wants to process their body stuff with you, but can't handle it when you say one thing back to them about your body stuff.”
This is the next tweet: “I should be sleeping, but I'm up feeling anxious about reentering social life with people who are maybe fatter than they have been, and the thought of it is truly so exhausting. I have absolutely missed socializing, friends, colleagues, but I have also spent a lot of time this year in a place I made safe and comfortable for myself. Leaving it to interact with people who aren't comfortable with their bodies in spaces that are hostile toward fat people feel so incredibly exhausting. Fodder for therapy,” is how she ended it, which is such a good—
CP: —Yup, exactly.
SB: And like, the social anxiety I have around getting back into society is like, this is such a embedded part of it that I hadn't even been able to parse out until I saw this tweet. ‘Cause yeah, when you get to see people again, they're like, “Oh, you lost weight, oh, you gained weight,” like all these things. And it's like, can we put this to bed? Can this not have to be part of the interactions of re-engaging with people? I would love to see it.
CP: Yeah, me too. It's just, it's like, this on top of all of the other, like just general, like worries and fears about being close to people again, COVID-related and otherwise, you know? It's a lot to think about, and I especially feel for folks that might experience that in their workplaces, you know? It's like, you know, when you work from home, of course, you're still engaging with coworkers, but it's different than being trapped in the break room with the conversation happening that you don't want to be a part of, you know? Um, and I wonder if that's part of all of this as well.
SB: It just reminds me of the microaggressions episode from last season where somebody was talking about what it felt like in the workplace to just witness someone being really, uh, awful about their, their daughter's body image actually. But like, what is that going to look like? I don't know.
Oh, you know what this reminds me of actually—I am confusion. I am confusion. I love Lindy West. We stan Lindy West on the show and also she's, she's been, um, putting the Will Smith images in her stories where he's like, “This is the body that got me through the pandemic, and it’s the worst shape I've been in my life,” arguably still in good shape. Like you’ve got like a lil bit of a gut.
CP: Like you are like a 55, 60-year-old man. Like it would stand to reason you have like a little tum, you know, and he's in Hollywood.
SB: Right. So, but then like, so like, yes, In part, this is kind of radical to see someone in Hollywood saying like, “This is a body that got me through the pandemic and I'm grateful for it,” but in the afterthought of that caption is him saying: “And now I'm ready to get back to work and lose it off.” Like ma'am! What?
CP: That really was very bizarre. Well, we're talking about bizarre Lindy West things. This is the real true pivot. Did you see all of the stuff she's posting about her dog? The dog poop incident?
SB: Oh, Barry poor Barry.
CP: I was so captivated by this saga, and I like, rarely tune into stories in that much detail, but I was just—it was wild.
SB: I like how when we're talking about our stories, people are thinking like, is this a telenovela? Is this—no, this is in the Instagram stories. Yeah.
CP: Yeah. Instagram. Yeah.
SB: No, I love Lindy West. Thing is, she was feeling the effects of the vaccine. So I feel like that had something to do with it. Um, ‘cause I went to a pathetic space when—not that hers was pathetic, not to like conflate the two, but yeah. What a, what a wild storyline. Um, I mean a good reason—that dog is something else though. Barry doesn't like to go on walks, so he’ll just lay in the street.
CP: Yeah, it was all just very bizarre.
SB: Okay. But this is a really good segue because Shrill, season three launches tomorrow, which is like, In the past for you listening right now, but I'm so excited for it. I am so excited.
CP: I actually—I've been, you know, like resharing this for forever, but I didn't, it's like, we're already in May, now it's happening. Oh, I'm excited to tune into this and it's the last season, right? And they told us it's the last season. So you kind of know it's all going to get wrapped up. I love when we just know that's the plan, you know? Oh, what a good, what a good show.
SB: Yeah. Well, and like from—we'll probably have a recap once we're actually able to watch it.
CP: Yes.
SB: Um, but like, Hulu really coming through with the content, because there's another movie coming out that I sent you the trailer for called Plan B.
CP: It looks great!
SB: Yeah. It's coming out on May 28th and it is akin to, I would say like the Booksmart, uh, variety of like, um, and ventures between two best friends.
And I just, I'm very excited, Natalie Morales um, I like, I got some feedback from a friend of mine—hey, Elizabeth—who listens to the podcast. She's like, “You say all these names. I have no idea who you're talking about at any given time.”
CP: Yeah, that does happen.
SB: But I like the people who know, know, I feel like so—and I like to attribute it to the people who are doing the work.
So, um, anyways, Natalie Morales is an actress. You've probably like if you saw her photo, you'd be like, oh, I know exactly who that is. Um, but that's not the point. This is her production, but there's some really great Indian representation. Kuhoo Verma's in it, and I am very excited that like, when I was a child, I did not have—I had Harold and Kumar, who are actually connected, like the creators of, uh, Harold and Kumar are connected to this adventure movie in some way, shape or form.
I don't know it was in the trailer. I didn't dive into it too much, but, um, I'm just like really pleased that there are different representations of like Indian girls in, in stories. In this one, there was the Never Have I Ever, um, Mindy Kaling joint on Netflix that came out a while ago. So I don't know. It's like, fun. Uh, Kind of irreverent, it looks like. So I'm pretty excited about that. Not really any fat representation that I could see out right on it, but anyways.
CP: But I loved, I'm glad you sent me the trailer. It looks really interesting and that's probably something else we'll share more about once we watch it.
SB: Yeah. Okay. Anything else on your end?
CP: I guess, you know, you already said it: spring has sprung. Um, oh, I will say we, uh, while I'm not able to share this publicly yet, the date, um, we have, a tentative partial summer storefront reopen date for Cake. And that feels pretty nice!
So the more on that to come, but yeah, it'll be, um, it's like a lot to manage, you know, were talking about like being anxious about what this all means. Well like, you know, having a business, that's like a whole ‘nother world of that. Um, so stuff that I'm like pretty, both like excited for, and also pretty cautious about so, but that's coming and that feels pretty exciting.
And also just like, it's fun. Summers are kind of slow, but I wonder how the summer will look for all of us, um, feeling safer about being out and about. Um, yeah, so I'm just kind of looking forward to what summer will bring.
SB: Okay. Lots, lots we'll look forward to.
CP: Yeah.
SB: Um, I'm wondering if we should talk about the media thing—
CP: Can we start with the thing I was very mad about, the -
SB: The people want to hear you get angry. I delight in your anger.
CP: Sometimes it's the righteous anger.
SB: Righteous. It feels so good.
CP: So, you know, actually this ties into what you were just talking about. You mention people's names, also, Elizabeth, I don't know these names that Saraya was talking about. Sometimes I google them, but I just never been the kind of person to know, like pay a lot of attention to like celebrity stuff, you know? Like I just, there's a few people who I know who they are, everyone else it's like, I am that person. If I see their picture, I know them, you know?
CP: Um, and I share that to say, I would not call myself a Demi Lovato fan—
SB: —What a buildup, what a buildup to talk about Demi!
CP: Okay. It's not, I mean, I have nothing against Demi.
I just like, I, she's not someone I pay attention to, you know, um, but two times are on two different podcasts that I regularly listened to within the last couple of weeks, they have made fun of this woman for calling out a frozen yogurt shop about their marketing language that was very rooted in diet culture.
And I was just so incensed. I was so mad and one of the podcasts I listened to, I wasn't really surprised the other one, I was very surprised that they're just like, giggle, giggle, giggle. How could Demi, you know, say these things about this yogurt shop for having sugar-free things?
SB: Can you tell the people what Demi actually said?
CP: Sure. So I guess I won't, I don't have like, quotes. I don't have quotes for you.
SB: And just like generally. Yeah.
CP: So apparently she went to this yogurt shop that was like, and it was like, “Oh, I'm so excited to go here.” It's a big deal, blah, blah, blah. And then, um, when she was there, she showed like a picture of this like cookie that said “guilt-free” on it. And then talks about how using like guilt-free language—and she also mentioned having sugar-free things, um, is like really hard for folks it's very, you know, rooted in diet culture and hard for folks, especially who have experienced, disordered, eating, eating disorder history to try to deal with. It's like, it was clear that she was just very excited to go to this place. And then just like totally disappointed when she saw what was going on inside.
And I think that feeling is something that I've experienced before. Like I...oh, my god. I can think of a list of three places right now, like new businesses to the Twin Cties. And I'm like, oh my gosh, I'm so excited to support this place.I'm so excited about this. And then I go and it's like, what? Or I see their marketing, and I'm like, “Ooh, that's not the way.” You know?
Um, and people were just like, “Demi don't, you know that some people can't eat sugar. What if you're diabetic?” And it's like—actually Jameela Jamil had a really lovely response, who also someone I'm not really like fully onboard with, but I do think she says some really smart, lovely things.
Um, and she shared, like, you know, people are so quick to, to, to say Demi doesn’t understand what's happening here. Like doesn't she know that some people can't eat sugar. Oh my gosh. And it's like, no, that's not at all what she's saying. Like, of course people, some people need sugar-free items and that's fine, and like label them as such.
But when you invoke guilt-free language, you are 1000% complicit with diet culture. Um, and it's just, it's a, it's a really gross way to market, to like, to prey on our vulnerabilities, insecurities like hearkening, these feelings of guilt and shame around, in this case, sweet treats, you know?
SB: Yeah. And like, it's interesting for you, the reason you were so incensed is because the podcast you were listening to—which shall not be named because we still enjoy it—but like when you enjoy something so, so wholeheartedly, and then it disappoints you in that way, I think that's just—
CP: —Yeah.
SB: There's the rub right there.
CP: And that also speaks to something we've talked about time and time again, is that like there can be social justice focused-spaces or like in this, in this case, a podcast that really does a really lovely job with representation and being thoughtful about how folks are portrayed and telling different stories.
And then it's like, the minute a fat thing happens, we're just gonna like giggle about it? Oh, it was just so disappointing.
SB: And I, I agree obviously with you, and then I also, that's like one of my biggest worries with our podcast, right? Like where are we doing that? Because we’re fallable.
CP: We definitely are. I mean, no one, no one does—no one's perfect, right? Um, and there's, you know, huge gaps for all of, for all of us. And also like, so it's like explanation, like it's, it's of course that's going to happen with people, but also, like, that's not an excuse. Like if we're doing things like that, and I would want folks to tell us, I hope they would.
And maybe to that end, I need to do a better job of tweeting. I told one of the podcasts about it, but I didn't tell the other one. Maybe I will.
SB: Isn't that interesting, your standards for it are different just because of the way that they present themselves in the first place. Like this is also like, so baseless. Everybody's like, what podcasts are they talking about? We don't need to talk about that anymore, but it's interesting, the expectations we have, um, when somebody is like with it and like saying the right things on a regular basis or doing hot takes versus someone who is just like pop culture based and just, yeah.
CP: Yeah. Yeah. So, I mean, surprise of all time, I'm like very invested in Demi Lovato in this moment. I'm just like, I'm just so mad on her behalf. I'm mad. I'm just mad about this. Um, and I, I like—TLDR, seeing something is guilt-free is definitely a problem and definitely is language that is rooted in diet culture. 100%, you can’t tell me different.
SB: 100% not cool for the summer.
CP: No!
SB: Do you get that? It’s a Demi Lovato song.
CP: No, I don't get that.
SB: That’s a Demi Lovato song.
CP: Oh my God, you’re so good. No I didn’t get that, I know none of her songs. That's not true. I'm sure I know some, but, um, yeah. Okay. Let's move on to another media thing that we're both excited about and not mad about, um, which is—
SB: —That’s like every segment. Are we mad or are we not mad?
CP: I’m always mad! But we're not mad at this one. Um, it's the show on Peacock called Rutherford Falls.
SB: Okay. Peacock for those of you who don't know, like I, like I knew, but only because of 30 Rock but only because like I pay attention is like the streaming service for NBC. Is that correct?
CP: Yeah. And what I've learned is that there are some shows that NBC does not have on TV and it's just available—they're just available on Peacock, their streaming service. And this show is actually one of those.
SB: Yeah. It's interesting. So. It's like very, so Cat saw it and she's like, and I hadn’t seen it. It was coming out and she's like, “You have to watch it. You have to watch it.” And she so kindly, uh, clued me in on how to watch it because obviously I wasn't going to go right to Peacock. I didn't even know it existed. Um, but as I tuned in, I'm like, “Oh, I love this. Oh, this feels really comfortable to me.”
And I was like, “Why does this feel so comfortable?” And it's because Ed Helms from The Office, is in it, and Michael Shure who has done all of like Brooklyn Nine-Nine, like The Office, like everything that's funny out there basically, um, are like, it was their idea in the first place. And so I'm like, oh, like you've really honed this equation for a comedic storytelling about people's lives and the relationships and the ups and downs of it. And I felt like very, very comfortable and the jokes were just like very, very well done.
And well, okay. I'm going to get into it, but like, what else did you want to say before we dove into specifics about it?
CP: I guess I just, like, I think we probably have a lot of similar feelings. I just, I, I thought it was very fun and funny and light and also very like bold in some of the comparisons they're making.
Like, I think I can show them without giving too much away. It's this, this is not a spoiler. If it is, we'll take it out after, um, we won't, we won't give you spoilers, but like, there's this whole conversation about like land and like who belongs on what land and who, you know, and there's this moment where this white guy is like, explaining all this stuff, like “How dare you take this land away from me and then make me like work on it and have to pay you part of my earnings?”
And like, it's like, It is just the, the juxtaposition of what's happening here. It's like, it's comedy, but it's also so—such a bold, like critique of what has happened in our, in our country.
SB: And to clarify, like, the premise of Rutherford Falls is, um, like local tribe uh, is, you know, coexisting with this town that has existed there for a long time. It starts with, um, actually a statue, you know, it's quite a big time for statues to come down that represent conflicted and fraught history. And so that's like the initial premise of it, and then we get into looking at the history of Rutherford, Rutherford Falls, you know, how it came to be, how it was, uh, what—what did they use?
They had a really good phrase, like a fair, a “uniquely fair and honest deal” that the Rutherford's made with the local tribe, um, to, for that land. And so, yeah, it's just a really great narrative and, um, I don't know, interesting insights into the complexities of land in the U.S. and doing it through a comedic storytelling is just really it's so it's pretty dang well done. And I think that's because even though Ed Helms and Michael Shure came up with this idea, they knew that they'd have to bring in someone who is actually Native, if they hadn't done that. I don't know.
CP: We would not be talking about it in such a complimentary way. I also don't think it would have turned out as well.
SB: Right. And also very curious for them to want to do that. Like, I don't know much more other than they invited Sierra Teller Ornelas into it. Um, and she's a show runner she's worked on Brooklyn Nine Nine, Superstore, Happy Endings, and also has contributed to This American Life, which is part of this really funny because they have a whole podcast like public radio situation going on, funny with, uh, Ted from Schitt's Creek.
CP: Yeah.
SB: Oh, like they just, the jokes the way they've set everything up to talk about, you know, the conflicts that are going on, um, with Indigenous folks, with land, uh, the compel complexities of like growing up with somebody, your best friend having different opinions, figuring out who you are. Figuring out that a people are not a monolith, like they are tackling pretty big things that I wouldn't have anticipated just from the like premise or like the trailer of the show.
CP: Yeah. And my, my favorite thing about all of it is just Jana Schmieding who's the co-star of this show, who's a fat woman and it's not—her body size is not part of the storyline. In any way, like it's not, oh, it's just, it is the, I think one of the best representations of a fat person on TV I've seen in a very long time, if not ever.
SB: Yeah. A fat Indigenous woman, too, who's like, it was like trying to build the cultural center, but like also dealing with the challenges of being within the tribe and like who says you get to be the mouthpiece for our culture?
CP: Right.
SB: Yeah. And, um, it's like, the details are everything like, to be fair? Like with this show, I watched all the episodes. I'm like, yeah, I like it. I wasn't sucked in yet.
CP: I don’t think you were as enamored as I was.
SB: No, I'm definitely gonna watch the second season. I hope they make a second season, I guess. I don't know the status of that. And, um, but like the details are so, so good.
So there's all these jokes about Ed Helms’ character making dioramas for this museum of his, the Rutherford's right. And. He's like the first scene is him walking or I guess it's the second scene walking through, um, a class to do a field trip about Rutherford Falls and he's giving them all this information.
And he's talking about how they made this like “uniquely fair and honest deal” with the Minishonka tribe, which is the fictitious tribe in this, uh, land in this storytelling of Rutherford Falls. And there's a kid in the class—super cool—he's got a land back t-shirt on which I'm like, okay, come through.
And then he asked, he's like, “Well, okay, you're talking about this wonderful statue of, uh, your great, great great-grandfather is like, are there any statues of the Minishonka?” And he's like, “No, there aren't.”
And it's just, the inequities are brought to the forefront. The fact that he has a land back tee they just do such a good job at every level. In my perception, right. I be interested to hear from other folks what they think about the representation happening in the show and what that looks like.
CP: Agreed. And there are, I mean, there've been several pieces written, it feels like many people are really liking what they're seeing. Um, and like the representation that they're seeing and feeling as part of the show, but also, um, you know, no culture is a monolith, right? And so I'm interested to know like, just cause we have great takes of this, like, I don't know if that really means a whole lot, you know,
SB: I wish we knew what to do to help. I don't know, get it a second season.
CP: I mean I think, like, watch it, talk about it, tell people about it. I, this is, this is the show that like made me subscribe to purchase Peacock. You can see the first three episodes without buying. Like, you need to get an account, but you can, you, uh, you can watch the first three eps on a free account, then you need to pay for it. And I've been tweeting everybody who will listen about it, you know, like “Hello, Peacock!”
Um, but I hope that I think just the more buzz the better. And so if there's anything, um, folks can do to help contribute to positive buzz to do it.
SB: Yeah. Yeah. Well, there you go.
CP: Every time, Facebook has shown me the show, like it's a different ad. I've seen maybe seven ads for this. And I comment on almost all of them. I'm like, “This is incredible, love this so much!” You know, they're like, who is this girl? But I just want them to know.
SB: Single-handedly, Cat will ensure that there is a second season of Rutherford Falls.
CP: I will do my very best. Yeah.
[THEME MUSIC FADES IN AND OUT]
SB: Hullo and welcome to the end of the episode. We are here, we made it.
CP: We did it! I loved it!
SB: And it's that same love baked into every iota of this podcast. If you loved even just a little bit of an iota of this episode, you may want to visit our website www.matteroffatpod.com. You can find show notes, transcripts, information about us access to older episodes and info on events like our Podluck.
CP: And also our—
[CLIP FROM THEME SONG SAYING “Matter of Fat”]
CP + SB: —Cash!!
CP: Like I mentioned at the top, like, y'all have been asking for this for awhile. So we are so excited to deliver. Um, now you can contribute Fat Cash to us here at Matter of Fat through our Venmo. And all of the information is on our website.
SB: Mhmm. Find us on Venmo @MatterofFatPod. And of course we have all the details about this on our website, like Cat just said, we want to give some love to those who love us.
So this episode shoutout goes to Deb for sending some Fat Cash our way. Appreciate you Deb!
CP: Aw, thanks, Deb! And folks, you know what we want you to do; please subscribe, rate, and review to our podcasts wherever you catch Matter of Fat. We would love, love, love to shout you out front of review in our next outro.
SB: Yes. And until next time when we're back with another episode of—
CP + SB: —Matter of Fat!
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