S3E6 - Season 3 Finale: The Bests- Transcript
Released on December 23rd, 2020. For complete episode info, visit this page!
[INTRO MUSIC BEGINS, FADES OUT]
Cat Polivoda: Welcome to Matter of Fat, a body positive podcast with midwest sensibilities.
Hi! I’m Cat Polivoda - a local fat feminist, shop owner, and—ok, to pull back the curtain, I leave this part of my intro till the very last minute every time, and this time, this is all you’re getting.
I’m joined by my co-host & producer, Saraya Boghani.
Saraya Boghani: Hi, I’m Saraya; a fat, multiracial Minneapolitan millennial who still has the will to find a silver lining and procrastinates in, like, basically every other thing except this part of the show. (CP laughs) So that’s all you’re getting.
CP: On Matter of Fat, we're here to talk about the cultural politics of fat liberation with a Midwest perspective.
SB: And um, whoa! This episode marks the end of Season 3.
CP: Wow! 2020 was a dumpster fire but, lemme tell you, spending 7 to 10 hours a week on FaceTime with you, Saraya, was really really great.
SB: Absolutely We’ve had so little stability this year, and it was a pleasure to see your gorgeous, digitally-transposed face every week to talk about our woes and wins!
CP: Ohhh! And, you know, I hope even a fraction of that stability and joyfulness has come through to our audience over our various interviews and episodes and minisodes we’ve shared this season.
SB: Me too! This year’s been rough, but you know us, gotta balance the bleak with the celebratory! Because it’s the end of the season and almost the end of the year, our final episode of 2020 is going to mirror one we did last year at this time—
CP: —The bests!!
SB: It’s the bests, babes! We’re going to recap and share some of our third season bests—
CP+SB: —As a matter of fat!
[TRANSITION MUSIC FADES IN, FADES OUT]
SB: What a year!
CP: The end of the season, the end of the year—y’know, it’s a great time to look back. And what a better way to focus on the delights and successes of 2020 than with a format we popularized last season finale, the bests!
SB: Yes, definitely popularized! (CP laughs) I think we can claim that, because it was one of our most popular episodes last season. Also, us taking the time to talk about all of the great things this year isn’t an attempt to be glib or ignore the heartache and pain we have all endured so consistently AND in such different ways this year. So, us reviewing the season is an observance of our gratitude for the resiliency and joy that have co-existed this year.
CP: Absolutely. It is both/and, forever. But, with this episode, we’re really looking forward to sharing some more of the joyful bits of 2020!
SB: Yeah! So, where to start?
CP: Honestly, I think all of our episodes and minisodes were the best, especially all of the great folks we got to talk to!
SB: Aww, the people! Ok yes, that is exactly where we should start. Let’s dive into a recap of everyone we featured on the episodes and some minisodes this season. Let’s just like, go chronologically and share a few things we particularly enjoyed from those interviews, hmmm?
CP: I love it, I love it.
Okay so first, uh, our first interview of the season was with Kachina Yeager.
SB: Love Kachina.
CP: Love her.
SB: What a great way to start the season, honestly!
CP: It was so good. Um, and I just, I really, I appreciated so many of the things that we talked about. One very specific piece comes to mind: like, when she was telling her story as a matter of fat, she mentioned this NPR moment when she was like, in the car, listening to Lindy West talk, and was just like, so captivated by what she was saying.
And like, they arrived at the destination and were still in the car listening on the radio. And like, I just, um, oh it’s beautiful, and like still sticks out to me from that interview.
SB: She just did such a great job of describing that moment. Like I think they were driving up to Superior, or along—
CP: —Somewhere North—
SB: —Yeah, like a very Minnesotan moment to have that realization. And then she also did such a nice job of explaining how, like, her work with Cake and you had also transformed her, like, fat identity.
CP: (wistfully) Yeah.
SB: It was beautiful.
CP: Also, it was really nice to hear about her work through Milkweed Editions, um, and just talking about books generally, it was a fave (laughs), especially for us, right?
SB: Yeah! And I mean, you have always been pro-romance novels in a way that like, I haven't really wrapped my mind around. Um, but she gave me, um, you know, time for a moment of pause, some food for thought. Because, you know, romance novels are prolific and well-written, and there's just different varieties of them, and so that actually helped me check out some new literature this year. So that was a good, a good prompt for me.
CP: And one of them that she recommended, we both read and we both liked, right? Beach Read?
SB: Yeah! I really enjoyed that, really enjoyed that.
CP: It was a good one.
SB: Another really cool thing, which like--oh my gosh, if we take this long talking about everyone—
CP: —Oh no—
SB: —This is gonna be the longest episode, so we gotta pare it down. But like, clearly we love everybody.
Kachina talked about, um, like her exploration of her Indigenous language, and like, what that meant, too, in her work with Milkweed Press. And so--oh, so many great recommendations, so many great things to check out. Please go, go back and listen to that episode. It was beautiful.
CP: Yeah. Okay. And now we really do have to keep ‘er moving! (Both laugh)
SB: Ope, let’s keep ‘er moving! And we talked to Alex Jacques!
CP: Oh!
SB: Wonderful, wonderful. Um, where, what was, what stood out to you the most in our conversation with Alex?
CP: I guess it was another one of these things that he was sharing in his story as a matter of fat, and just talking about like growing up, um, in, in Wisconsin, and like, having to acknowledge, like, the sort of messed up land politics with the Oneida tribe, that was like where he grew up around it. Just the way that he talked about that was really thoughtful and interesting, and like, made me want to dive deeper into that.
SB: Mhmm, yeah. I mean, he did a fabulous job of modeling how to talk about identity as well. I thought as like, you know, a white man in my, in my circle, he always just is so conscientious, and I think that makes sense ‘cause he has an education background. So, I thought it was cool to hear about how, when he was growing up, um, you know, music and art teachers really allowed him to explore what he was good at and move forward with that. So that made sense.
Yeah, it was great. It was great!
CP: Oh, it's just solidifying for me, Like, it's just such a gift to hear about people's stories as a matter of fat, just like the way--oh, everyone's so great.
Um, okay. Also, Alex. We talked about NLC, a forever fave on the pod. Um, as you alluded to, we talked about education, specifically disparities in education, specifically here in the Midwest and in the Twin Cities.
The next interview we did was with Ani Janzen.
SB: We've talked about Ani so much, it was finally time that we interviewed her. Um, I mean, I remember it being really wonderful because one, we got to talk about, uh, a seminal favorite Midwestern conversation topic, which is the weather and season changes.
CP: Oh yeah. (Laughs)
SB: Like, how different that is in the time of pandemic, which was really beautiful. Um, what, what stood out to you?
CP: Uh, I think this is such a silly, fun detail, but she talked a lot about ASDAH, um, and kind of helped share with us, like what ASDAH is, what it's all about. And at the time of the interview, I remember her saying, like, “Oh, and the website is gonna be updated!” Um, and it wasn't updated in time for our episode release, but it has been updated since!
And I can tell you that it's a lovely website, and I'm now a member, and it's just like, so everything she promised.
SB: We'll have to link that in the show notes then.
CP: Definitely.
SB: The sha-notes. (Both laugh)
CP: We will link. Um, and then I guess also something I really--this just aligns with stories as a matter of fat, how she'd spoke about like, um, looking for books about dieting and kind of falling into fat liberation through a search for a diet that would work. And this like, moment of, you know, a librarian at her workplace, like, putting out a book, hope--and her thinking, like, I think she knows that maybe I'll see this, and then she did, and sort of the rest is history. And like, what a powerful history.
SB: Yeah, I mean, librarians are magic. That was a magical moment.
Um, and I think for me, like, we had wanted to talk to Ani about her kind of research background and analytical framework for engaging with, like, fat liberation, but then she just was like, “Hmm, nah.” Like, as much as that is important and changes the way we talk about fat liberation and fat people's rights, it actually really comes down to just seeing the human dignity in everybody. And I was like—
CP: —That was so powerful—
SB: —I was like, thank you. Like, that's a good call. ‘Cause regardless of how you dress up the numbers—’cause, as someone who has, uh, did their Master's degree in psychology, it's like, yeah, you can study anything. You can, you can craft a narrative out of anything, but when it comes down to it, it's just like, human dignity is the most important. So, yeah.
CP: Yeah. Oh, another great one.
Okay, and next up we had our interview with Christa Mims.
SB: Ah, love Christa!
CP: Love her.
SB: Okay, so I know what I wanna talk about, (crosstalk) do you know what you wanna—
CP: (crosstalk) You go, you go! You talk! What were your favorite bits?
SB: Okay! I'm so grateful to Christa because, um, she is just so enthusiastic about positive change, sustainable change for our community. And so, I got to volunteer for her campaign for the school board election this year, and it was so fun to see what that looked like and the conversations and connections she was making with the community. And I do sadly have to share that she did not win the election this year--
CP: —But it was so close.
SB: So close. Okay, it was 15,935 votes versus 15,623 votes.
CP: What is that, like, 300—
SB: —312 vote difference.
CP: Oh my gosh!
SB: Like, wow. I’m pretty positive that, like, people have not shown up in those numbers to vote in history, so.
CP: Aw, man. Y'all did, you put in work. That is so incredible.
SB: Yeah. She and her team and like, my slight, (laughs) my slight phone-banking skills. Um, I just like, even though she, she didn't win, I'm just so impressed by the campaign she ran, and so getting to talk with her about that and her interest in, um, bridging some of those educational disparities in the Twin Cities? Super important.
And, she brought up something really interesting about how, even though the pandemic is really shining a light on all of these inequalities and inequities, you know, hopefully it can generate some new ideas, some new ways to support those who are underserved and underrepresented-ed.
CP: Yes.
SB: Underrepresented, ugh.
CP: Yes. I loved, ugh, it was just such a delight to like, hear about her--about her school board, um, election process and just her dreams and hopes and the things that she values. It was just, oh my gosh, incredible.
Um, and then also, I just—she spoke a bit about like being, um, like living in a larger body and being abroad and how that is, like, different. Um, and I really enjoyed that and her story about her pants, which is like, oh my God. I think everyone, um, who has ever lived abroad who is fat, has just like, felt the struggle of buying clothes in a foreign country. Um, and I loved that story.
SB: Mhmm, the pants. And also, I mean, I remember her saying to like, just, if there's something you want to do, like you have every right to go do it and explore it and see it. And I think that's like, the mantra that I'd have to take with me next time that I can travel in the future.
CP: Yes. A poignant and powerful reminder.
SB: Okay. But let's, let's go on to our next guest, Siomai Moore.
CP: Oh, it was so great to have her on! And so, she also has a podcast, and I think that might be our first guest who also has their own pod—oh, maybe I'm misremembering.
SB: Current, ‘cause Angela used to have a podcast.
CP: Yes, good recall. Yeah. So it was fun to hear about Siomai’s burlesque origin story, and like, that's extra special, ‘cause on her podcast she talks to other burlesque performers about their burlesque origin stories.
SB: Mhmm, yeah! It was kind of fun to just be able to chat. Like, not that it made it onto the interview, but just chatting about podcasting and that whole process.
CP: Yeah.
SB: And I mean, she's based in Chicago, so because of the pandemic, um, we were actually able to extend our reach a little bit as to who we could interview and when, and that was really cool, to be able to do that.
CP: Yeah, that was so great. I think the final piece I really, like, enjoyed about our interview with her, or the piece that like, kind of still sticks out to me, is we were talking about like fat community in Chicago and what that's like, and she was like, actually, she kind of offered more of a reframe and was like, “You know, for me, it's sort of online. Like I am, like, on the internet and like, internet fat community is really where I found my home.” Um, and it was just cool to hear her speak to that.
SB: Speaking of an online community, we really cast our net even further with one of our minisodes, where we got to talk to a number of men as a matter of fat.
CP: Oh, it was so great!
Okay. So we connected with Ben Voas, Ian Harris, Jeff Jenkins, Koichi MacGregor and Gianluca Russo, um, to talk about men as a matter of fact! Which like, okay, we can not say everything about men as a matter of fat in 40 minutes--which, even in and of itself is like a pretty lengthy mini--oh no, that was one of the 50 minute ones. Wasn't it? (Saraya laughs)
CP: Either way, it was a pretty mega mini. But, uh, of course we couldn't speak to, you know, every part of this experience, but it was important for us to talk to folks, um, that had, you know, more experiences to share than Saraya or I do on this topic.
SB: Yeah, which was fun! It was cool to literally hand them the mic or be able to read their accounts for this conversation, because it's just us, it's just your girls, chattin’. (Cat laughs)
But this time, we got to hear some really interesting perspectives on what it's like being in the fat community.
CP: One of my favorite parts of this was like how, there was at one point, I think it was Gianluca who is talking about like, fashion and like, sort of, the need and like kind of wondering like, is there the market for the kind of, you know, men's fashion that like he is hoping can be part of, you know, a reality for a plus-size men?
And then it was sort of like, asked and answered. ‘Cause then a few other folks who chimed in, talked specifically—like without knowing that that was something that had been discussed previously, you know—they said, “Oh no, we want fashion that's this and that and this, and it was just so cool how, like, um, it sort of felt like folks were in conversation with one another, even though we got all of their, um, their perspective separately.
SB: Mhmm, yeah, it was beautiful.
Um, I mean, like, similarly, I want to give a shoutout to all of the people who submitted their stories, or experiences for the Matter of Fat mini on microaggressions, because that was fantastic. I am--I am just like, consistently impressed with people who are willing to share their experiences and then also see that resonate across so many other people's like, lives and livelihoods.
Um, and then also we want to give a shoutout to Susun for help with that episode.
CP: Yeah! It's so nice to have a bestie who is also an expert in microaggressions (Both laugh) and it was just so lovely that she could pop on our pod and share, um, a little breakdown of definitions of microaggressions for us.
And then I guess the final person we want to talk about, we didn't actually interview, but we spent a lengthy Dirt and Discourse discussing, and that's Stacey Abrams.
SB: Yeah! I—this was back in August, and we are just Stacey stans. You heard it here, you heard it in August—
CP: Truly, yes—
SB: And, um, I think what's been cool is just to see her and her work be applauded, um--
CP: —And recognized!
SB: —Recognized, yeah.
CP: With everything happening in Georgia. Yep. I mean, Stacey for President, am I right?
SB: You're right, (Cat laughs) you’re right.
That's—okay, that, that was a lot of people! That was our season!
CP: So many people! Oh, that was, yeah, that was just so, so great. Like I said, everybody was the best.
SB: The best. This is like, crème de la crème, here on the podcast. We only have the best. Um, so, speaking of, let's talk about our minis for a moment.
CP: Oh, another best for us, right? (Saraya laughs)
So, this season we did something totally new and created minisodes based on some of the foundational concepts we explore regularly on the pod. Because like, here's the thing: we know that for some folks, the things we talk about might be really common or they might understand fully, but for others in our audience, more of like the words or phrases or concepts that we use regularly could be unfamiliar, or could use a deeper dive.
SB: We also want Matter of Fat to be a resource—
CP: —Yes!—
SB: That was a huge goal for us, um, in our planning for the season. So choosing these topics, often throwing in a whole lot of research and history, and packaging it in a relatively short and very shareable minisode, was our way of creating more educational content through the community.
CP: And we know Dirt and Discourse is consistently a fave segment for folks--um, it’s one of my fave segments, too--um, uh, and our minisodes sorta felt like an extension of that. So, not only did we get to break down these concepts, we were able to bring our fun and sassy critical lens to all of them, which had like, very strong Dirt and Discourse vibes. I loved it.
SB: Mhmm, I loved it too. So let's, let's talk about it. Let's chat about each of the minisodes we did this season, and what we loved about them.
CP: Awesome. And we should go--we're going in chronological order again, so if you're following along here, but haven't checked them out, you'll know where to find them.
SB: Mhmm!
So the first one we did was fat liberation.
CP: Yes!
SB: So back in season one, I remember for our first Dirt and Discourse, we did, like—I did a little bit of sleuthing—
CP: —A little bit of investigative journalism, yeah.
SB: Like, lite. (Both laugh) Like investigative journalism-lite. And these minis really, like, allowed us to do more digging and more research. And I just, for fat liberation, it was like, the history of it all for me. Um, I just—I knew these facts, like we had touched on these people that we've talked about, about who paved the way for fat liberation, you know, the work that they were doing. But we went back and read accounts, like firsthand accounts of people during this time.
And, um, what was being said, watching their lives kind of, um, come together and diverge and see where they are now and how it's informed so much of what we're talking about now is just, like, really remarkable. I don't know, it was really cool.
CP: Yeah, I loved it. I'm really proud of this minisode, and it was kind of a, like, a powerful one too, like our first out the gate, you know? Um, I, I am forever such a fan of the fat liberation manifesto and I'm so glad we got to like, spend a little time talking about that in this e—or this mini, rather—um, but then also in this like, I think it speaks to what you're saying about like hearing people's lives, Saraya, but like, you know, while lots of things change, lots of things still say the same. Um, and it's just really, it's like, hard and weird, but also important to like, understand that the things people were calling for 50 years ago are still things that like, we are like, verbatim saying today.
SB: Mhmm, mhmm.
CP: And maybe, I mean, not to be a downer here, but like, I think that's something we learned through a lot of the history that we looked at and incorporated into most of our minisodes. It's like, the things that are happening now, this stuff has been happening for forever. Um, just, you know, maybe under a different name, but also maybe not.
SB: Yeah. Yeah. But I think what's important and powerful is that now that we can understand what was happening, um, like, we can continue to champion it in our lifetime.
CP: Right, right.
SB: And, there has been progress. Um, it's like, more people are talking about this than ever before because of technology. Like I remember one thing about that mini was that we were amazed at people planning these activities, like cross-country. This was certainly before cell phones, certainly before internet—
CP: —Email! (laughs) Oh, my God—
SB: —how are you gonna organize this like, sit-in, or like, protest at Central Park? Like, I have no idea. So—
CP: —It's remarkable. Yeah, you're right, I don't mean to be so bleak about it. Like there are—and I think technology is a big key here. It's like, more people have access to this information and can share this message because, um, it's more easily shared.
SB: Mhmm. It is bleak! Like, I think that's the balance of all of this though, is that even though we're in the mix of some really hard, um, situations, I think there is still progress happening, which is what we got to explore with our other minis too.
CP: Yeah, you're right. You're right. Um, including the next one, which is about fatphobia.
SB: Yeah! We're gonna go all the way back to July 1st with this one!
CP: Ooh, so long ago!
SB: I know! I mean, I really came in hard with the middle school, five paragraph essay, definition-topic-statement—
CP: You sure did. (Saraya laughs) Wow. (Laughs)
SB: Well, it was needed! We defined fatphobia. Um, we shared some amazing articles and research about the origins. Um, there were different examples that we trotted out--and I will say, okay, that banger of a quote from Evette Dionne (Cat gasps), which, I’m gonna do it right now, I’m gonna share it with everyone—
CP: You—please, yes! Yes, read it.
SB: I need the gravitas that is deserves:
“There is nothing wrong with wanting to be affirmed by people who understand how crucial it is to love your body as it is. In fact, there's an entire history of people who've done exactly that and fought for the dignity of fat people. You can learn that history, and then carry on that legacy. In fact, the movement has been waiting for you all along.”
Ack! So good!
CP: (sighs) I just, oh my gosh. Honestly, out of all of the folks that we referenced, I think Evette Dionne’s work is some of my favorite, uh, on fat stuff; fat liberation and body positivity, fatphobia, et cetera. So, so good.
SB: Mhmm, yeah. This was also where we introduced, like, Sabrina Strings’ research, too.
CP: Yes! Oh, which is so pivotal. Yeah! Yeah yeah yeah. Oh, this was, this was--I feel like this is a good minisode to share with people who are like, “What's fatphobia?” Or like, “That's not real.” Like, (clears throat) hello, uh, receipts have been provided. (crosstalk) Uh, please listen to this minisode—
SB: (crosstalk) Please look at our bibliography, like—(Both laugh) See the references section, our lit review is ready for a review.
CP: Truly.
SB: Yeah, and what's cool is that the way we chunked out these first three minisodes is really focusing on fat liberation, fatphobia and then of course we had to bring in body positivity there. So, um, I think I was the least interested in this topic. Maybe you were—
CP: Oh, hard same. (Saraya laughs) Yeah, well, no, well—maybe not. I mean, it's fun to be critical, love to talk a little trash, you know? Um, and I feel like that's what we probably did more of, um, about this as a concept, you know? And I think, like we do share in the mini: personally like, I don't think that body positivity is a worthless concept. I think that it has value. It is just like so far from what we want and need, um, and especially for us with our podcast—and I know you and I, Saraya, like, we just find ourselves so much more aligned with fat liberation, um, and everything that comes with it.
SB: Yeah. But it is good to figure out where it exists and where it can help people enter into that conversation too. So, yeah.
CP: And I think, too, it's like, it was good to be able to talk about this. I mean, we, after all, like body positive, like we talk about that as like our catchphrase to our podcast, right? Like, so it's not as if it's not a word we use.
SB: It’s a trap! We’re trapping you!
CP: Yeah! Yeah, which we talk about in this minisode, like, we getcha in and then we, uh, tell you all the real deal.
But I also think in the same way that like, the fatphobia minisode could be helpful to someone who's like, “What is fatphobia? Is that a thing?” Y’know, I think our body positivity episode could be helpful for people who think that body positivity is just this, like, shining beautiful thing that is like, gonna save us all.
‘Cause like, spoiler alert, it's not? But, um, it is something that like, you can think about and also maybe reconsider.
SB: Mhmm, I love the spoiler alert, because like—-(Both laugh) This is us recapping everything we’ve done this season. Maybe you haven't listened, I hope that you will want to, even after that spoiler alert, I imagine you will.
CP: I wonder, I wonder, like, I'm just, I'm just curious to know, like, if folks are, um, listening to this or reading our transcript right now, like, if they have, you know, consumed all of the stuff that we're talking about, or if people are like, “Oh, I didn't listen to that one. Maybe I'll pop over, or maybe I don't need to anymore, ‘cause Cat told me the premise, so—” (Both laugh)
SB: No, no, no, you should definitely go listen again, if you have already. But, um, what's cool is that we took the minisodes this year as like, a really different kind of genre for the podcast, which I enjoyed. Because these first three were like, “Let's be super informational, let's do a bunch of research.” And then we're like, “Let's change it up a little bit, let's do something a bit different.” And we were really wracking our brains, trying to think of what we wanted to hear and what we wanted to talk about—
CP: Well we had like, a list of all the things we could do. And we just like, weren't feeling inspired that day. Like I remember this, and we were like, “Well, we could do this and we could do this,” but then this next one came up.
SB: Yeah, I think that's also, um, in part because this is such a passion project for us. So like, anything that we're gonna put our mind, our mind to, or our time to, we have to be really enthused about it.
CP: Right.
SB: Otherwise, I think it comes through for you the listener, and then also it's just not a good use of our time. So we were talking about this next topic, and it just felt like, radical and exciting, and that was the benefits of being fat episode!
CP: Yeah! It just came out of us chatting about like, “You know what? Our lives have been actually better because we're fat.” And it was fun to be able to explore that in this, in this context.
SB: Mhmm. Like not to say that it was the easiest thing to put together, because I think it takes a lot of critical reflection to get to a point where you live in a world that says being fat is one of the worst things you can be, and then to be like, “Actually, like, wow, I like, hmm, was saved from a lot of other shitty stuff because I was fat, like how cool.”
CP: Plot twist. (Both laugh)
SB: Huge plot twist! Um, but like for me personally, three years ago, when we started this podcast, I wouldn't even call myself fat. And here I am, recognizing how that oppressed identity can actually generate like, unexpected skills and abilities. And, uh, to hear some of our followers share their superpowers due to their fat identity was really rewarding for me too.
CP: (sighs) It was just like, yeah. This, this minisode just like, felt really good to make, and the response to it was really lovely, and just like, being able to hear, um, yeah, just like you said, when other people shared related to, like, the benefits they saw to being fat. It was just very, very special--and not like a, a thought experiment that I feel like folks often engage in, you know?
SB: Mhmm. Yeah.
CP: Yeah! And then, um, kind of along the lines of like mixing it up with our minis, uh, our next one, we already mentioned it a little bit, but it was “Men as a Matter of Fat.” Um, and it was just so fun!
SB: So much fun, because we were writing it out initially, we were kind of structuring it how we structured all of our minis where we talk about things. And then as we were chatting, I was like, “We should, we should hear from--” Well, I think you had already proposed the idea of reaching out to these folks to get their, you know, written statements on some of the questions we had?
CP: Oh, mhmm, and then you're like, “No no no no no,” (Saraya laughs) “We should see if they can record.” Which is a great suggestion.
SB: This is a really bossy audio engineer. “No no no no, we need to hear from—”
CP: —”No no no, get that audio, Cat—”
SB: “—Cat!”
CP: I worked on it, we did it!
SB: You did such a good job of reaching out to folks, too. I really appreciated that.
CP: Well and people were easy to work with, thankfully. So it was, it was just great.
SB: Such rad dudes, honestly—
CP: —And a really great mix of dudes, too. It was awesome!
SB: And then we kind of brought it back, right? Like to the first three kind of episodes—
CP: —I feel like kind of a mix, because like our “Fat Microaggressions” episode, it incorporated people's perspectives and was very chatty, and like, we got to kind of share our takes on people's situations, and kind of say like what we might do or what we thought about it. But we also were able to break down the concept of microaggressions in a way that felt very much like our first minisodes.
SB: Mhmm, yeah. It was like the perfect balance of those two.
I just, I did talk to somebody about--well, I talked to a few people about that episode--but I think it really hit for a lot of people in lots of different ways.
CP: Yeah!
SB: Which is great.
CP: Ooo, ooo, ooo, so good! (Saraya laughs)
And then I would say that our final two minisodes of the season did really take on a similar, um, kind of set up to our, our first ones. So we did “Fitness and Fatness,” um, and then that was followed by “Diet Culture.”
SB: Okay. That “Fitness and Fatness” episode was so special. Uh, it felt like stars aligning for that one.
CP: Truly!
SB: Because, back in, was it February?
CP: Mhmm.
SB: Yeah. So we went to DePaul to provide, you know, conversation regarding fatphobia, fat liberation, and body positivity; and on our way back—well, actually, you should tell it, I shouldn't say it, you should tell it.
CP: What do you mean?
SB: I did that like classic move, like, “Oh, well, like this is really exciting! Oh no no no, you tell it.” Um, about TPT. ‘Cause that was through you, originally.
CP: Yes! So, um, like last year I worked with Diana Fraser at TPT, um, and her team, uh, to do a piece about me and the shop and it was really great, and also us! Sorry, I should say like Saraya played a large part in this, and Matter of Fat was highlighted, and it was just like such a good experience. And it was really cool how like, our Matter of Fat episode, the content we shared kind of scaffold, like, provided scaffolding for the, the, the piece that they did.
Um, and so from that, Diana approached us about doing another episode, um, where we would kind of have our Matter of Fat script lead the way to kind of open up to another conversation. Um, uh, and she suggested fitness and fatness.
So, um, we recorded it in February. Uh, it was awesome. Um, but on—yeah, we had a poppin’ little few months before the pandemic started.
Um, and we--so we were in, we were coming back from Chicago where we had just done a talk, um, and we were in the car, uh, together writing this episode for TPT. Um, and then that episode kind of morphed into this minisode!
Wow. That was like a long story, but an interesting one? (Both laugh) I hope?
SB: Don't take our word for it!
CP: Yeah I know!
SB: The fact that this script came out of a, like a random, like slightly-generated one for that recording, but then became a real script that became a real episode that became tied to an article that we wrote for TPT, I think the “Fitness and Fatness” episode, where we just talk about how they should be best friends.
CP: They can be, yeah!
SB: They are.
CP: Mhmm. And I like, um, I think what's also cool is that like, we did some research for this episode--not as much, maybe, as some of our meatier minisodes, but like, the research we did for this mini, um, we did in February before we even had like, started to kind of conceptualize what our minisodes would actually look like. So that's another like, little special tidbit about this one.
SB: Yeah, BTS moments in the best!
CP: Truly.
SB: I love it.
CP: Ooo and I guess like, buckle up, ‘cause we got some more fun behind the scenes stuff that we'll share as other bests come along.
SB: Especially if you're already in the car, you should have been buckled. Click it or ticket, my friend. (Cat laughs)
Um, okay. Let's just do the last, the last minisode was—
CP+SB: —diet culture.
CP: We hate it, we hate it—
SB: —But it was really good doing the research and just seeing how us as humans just, we recycle the same stuff over and over and over again.
CP: Oh my God, Saraya, you took us through like hundreds of years of history, it was so good—
SB: —Thousands!—
CP: —Thousands! Thousands of years of history. Oh, that was wild and really informative, and it was great.
SB: Oh my gosh, okay. So we, we did wrap up our full interviews, our minisodes, but we have more for you.
CP: Oh yeah!
SB: Yeah!
CP: Uh, another best this year is that we grew our little team! So this season we had three fab Matter of Fat assistants: Cindy Kuehl, Erin Sandsmark, and Lindsay Bankole.
SB: Kudos to Cat for pushing me into this reality of having such a lovely little team. Um, I never could have dreamed it, but Cat last year was like, “Yeah, no, we need people.”
CP: “I think we need it.”
SB: And I was like, “Hmm, nah.” And she's like, “Yeah, we're gonna do this.” And here we are!
Um, I loved getting to meet like almost all of them IRL, uh, during the interview process because the pandemic was just kicking off.
CP: Oh yeah, it was right before the pandemic hit.
SB: Mhmm. And then we got a wide range of interests from some wonderful folks. And just like, having this small crew to check in with, uh, routinely about the project was so wonderful. And they like us, they really, really like us, and we really, really liked them.
CP: We loved them, yes! So you've seen our three assistants all over Instagram--our stories, in particular--um, and at our Podlucks, but you haven't heard from them on the pod this season.
So we asked them to share the best parts of their Matter of Fat experience this season, um, and here's what Cindy, Lindsay and Erin had to share.
Lindsay Bankole: Hey everybody, it's Lindsay.
I am chiming in about my Matter of Fat season three 2020 experience. And also just in general, 2020 wins.
So I was really impressed this year with the amount of content that we were able to try out, like the newsletters, and the Podlucks, and the ways that we all use Instagram stories. There was a lot of like experimentation that we could do, and that was really fun.
Also being able to listen to like, a raw episode and help do an edit check was really interesting. Just like listening to how the hosts kind of make different pieces of the pod fit together was, um, something that I really wanted out of the experience.And so it was cool to hear
Erin Sandsmark: Hey! This is Erin. Just want to share a couple of things from 2020 that have been so good in this crazy, hard, not-so-great year.
Um, some things that have gotten me through or things that I've experienced. Um, but just right off the bat, want to talk about how awesome it's been to work on Matter of Fat. Um, it's been really wonderful to help work on the newsletter, and work with Cat and Saraya on new ideas, um, help Lindsay or work with Lindsay, work with Cindy on all of our projects. And I dunno, just like, talking as a team has been really wonderful and it's been awesome getting to know everybody. It feels like another network I get to, I get to tap into and, and talk through all things fat!
Cindy Kuehl: My favorite part about working on Matter of Fat is really twofold. I was so excited to be part of this as I continuedon my own journey to be--come into my own fatness.
Uh, I spent a lot of my time in my adulthood trying to combat that, and I reached this point where it was a detriment to my mental health, and I was focusing on the wrong things, and so when I met Cat and got to start and learn more from, you know, from Cat and—I really started to realize that there's this like, whole world out there that I didn't know existed. That where I, where I would be welcomed and I wouldn't have to kill myself for—to diet. And I could, um, find people like me who had that same mindset.
And so, when the opportunity to join the Matter of Fat team came up, it made sense ‘cause it was that—it was that way to kind of push myself even further into that journey. And so, not—so, so that was the selfish reason why, what the best part of coming out of that has been just, um, furthering my own journey as a, as a fat person.
And then also I—the folks that I've gotten to work with, Cat and Saraya and the other assistants, um, Lindsay and Erin. What a blessing! What a blessing to work with such smart and capable and warm and funny humans. I will, um, this will always be an opportunity that, uh, that I will be so glad that I got to be a part of, um, and I am so lucky to have been a part of it.
CP: Thank you, thank you, for all of your hard work this season. We appreciate all three of you so so much!
SB: Thinking about all the work that we wanted to do this season just would not have been possible without your help. We have, you know, a newsletter, we've got transcripts, our Instagram story game is like exponentially better than it ever has been before. Um, Podlucks, surveys, and it's just so much fun to check in with these three ladies.
CP: Yeah! And I guess, honestly, that you mentioned something that leads to another best, which has been our Podlucks!
SB: Woo, yeah!
CP: You know, we've been intending to do some type of like, regular event kind of thing, but then the world went virtual, uh, but it made this addition to our routine so much more manageable. Um, and I just think our Podlucks have been even better than I imagined, maybe because of the virtual nature of them. So good.
SB: Yeah. I mean, for those of you who are just catching up, Podlucks are the monthly virtual get-togethers that we have where we discuss a podcast episode as a matter of fat.
CP: Mhmm.
SB: So we'll choose an episode from another podcast and then chat about it. It's kind of like a book club, except we're discussing a podcast episode and thinking about it from a lens of intersectional fat liberation.
CP: They've just been really great. For me, it is such a joy to see people's faces, and to hear from folks. Um, and it feels like everyone who is part of our Podlucks was just really open and thoughtful and really engaged in our conversation.
SB: Oh my gosh, yeah, that part. And I also have, like, so many podcasts in my library that I haven't listened to for various reasons—like mood, time of day, topic, I mean, I could go on and on about why I don't listen to the podcasts that have been recommended to me—but, selfishly, the Podlucks have provided an amazing opportunity for me to listen more intently about topics that I care about, but didn't make the time for otherwise. So that was really wonderful, one of the best outcomes of that. And I mean, truly though the best part was getting to talk with other people about it. Like, so cool. The community there? Amazing.
CP: (sighs) Yeah.
This year has been so weird and also so long. I mean, we can't forget about the whole two pre-pandemic months we had at the beginning of the year. We talked a little bit about them earlier. Um, they were actually really lively for both of us personally, and for the pod.
SB: It feels like it was a dream. Um, however, we, we quickly settled into recording from home and putting together, like, all of this. Um, so we have some more 2020 personal and seasonal bests that we'd like to dive into.
CP: Yes! Okay. First up, Saraya, what's the best part of recording from home?
SB: Yeah, I mean, it was such a change. So KFAI was where we were formerly recording, and it was such a great cocoon for this project, and I think we're just so grateful to Mason and all the rad volunteers who are putting their life into great programming for that community radio station, ‘cause that's a wonderful place.
CP: Yeah.
SB: I miss the connection to the community through being there. Um, but this was the push for me to develop my skills as an audio engineer. And like, even more, it's been kind of liberating to try things and see them actually work out?
Like, okay, how are we gonna record this from home? I don't know. Let's like, do some research on these microphones, and like, let's try this platform to help see if it'll allow us to, you know, record safely and consistently. And it's just been fun to see that, um, work out.
Uh, and then I think another favorite or best part of it is the photos of us in our makeshift recording studios. (Cat laughs) AKA, various fabrics. (Laughs)
CP: I'm under my flannel sheet, as we speak.
SB: Yup! I'm under my sweatshirt blanket, as well.
CP: And I'm like, I will say, like, I'm too warm today ‘cause the heat's on in here. In the summer, I'm too warm. But there were like a few months there where it was perfectly cozy under here.
SB: I’m a little cold, so if you hear some chattering, you know what that's about, but um, yeah.
CP: Okay and Saraya, you talking about like, developing your skills as an audio engineer? I think one of the like recording from home things that has really tested you are all of the sounds on my end that you try to edit out but can't always because my radiators are just so bumpy! And my cat is just so loud, sometimes. (Both laugh)
SB: The unofficial third co-host of the podcast is Vivi.
CP: Truly. Vivi, coming in, woo!
But I guess, I mean, the best parts of recording from home for me are just that it's so much more comfortable. It's like, “Okay, gonna buckle in under my flannel sheet,” if we need to take a break, it's easy, it's fun, um, I can use my own bathroom. Like, it's just, I'm just much more comfortable here than, um, in like, the cold dark studio.
‘Cause you know, we were always there so late at night.
SB: Yeah.
CP: I guess maybe that's another benefit is that like, um, the pandemic especially has--and recording from home--has allowed our schedules to be a little bit more flexible, and um, to be able to record like in the evenings instead of 11:00 PM.
SB: Yeah, like slightly less nocturnal. It’s been great.
CP: Yes. Just slightly. Yeah.
Also we're on separate tracks now! So with the new, like with our setup this way, so I'm not always so much louder than you!
SB: I mean, you are, but we don't hear it in post, which is great.
CP: That's the thing. I mean, the people don't hear it as pronounced as we did before. We tried so many things, and I always was so much louder, it was like, “Oh my God.” That is, I guess there's probably some kind of metaphor there to our lives, (Saraya laughs) and me as a person? I don’t know--(Laughs)
SB: I don't know, I don’t think so. Um, like, as you giggle there for a moment, I think we should just talk about our best silly moments.
CP: Oh, we just—I feel like this whole project is full of silly moments. I think general giggles just are the most fun. Um, I guess I can't think of like, any, fave—well, I do remember when “W.A.P.” came out, how, like, we, we had our scheduled night, we were over FaceTime and you're like, “What? You didn't see this video yet?” You're like, “You need to watch it and you need to keep me on the phone so I can see how you respond to it. (Saraya laughs) Um—(Laughs)
SB: That was so good.
CP: It was really, really good. So that was, um, that was a very fun, silly moment that I still think about. How about for you?
SB: Hmm. I, I think we just like to have fun, right?
CP: Yeah.
SB: So like anything we do, we also like to enjoy a lot. Like I was talking about earlier, anything we put into the podcast, like it has to be life-giving in some respect for us to want to keep doing it.
CP: Yeah.
SB: Um, so like, even when it's hard, we're still there to generate positivity, and I think that imbues a natural silliness into what we do.
CP: Yeah.
SB: So the, (laughs) probably the best silly moments are when we roast each other.
CP: Mhmmmm.
SB: Like, it's like a special form of hell for me to go back and edit those episodes and hear how much of a jerk I can be. (Still laughing) But also, have I changed? No, I haven't changed. So, I think I'm still funny. Um—
CP: —I think you're funny. It's all in good fun.
SB: Yeah. So those were funny moments.
CP: And then, I think maybe our collective most silly moment of the whole season, that I still (laughs) just get such a kick out of, is how we talk about being “Your friends in the podcast business?” Like the Shane Co. commercial? (Laughs)
SB: Oh my God, yeah. No, no, no. That's so, so, so good. Um, us, okay--this is probably, nobody wants to hear us just laughing and reminiscing about this--but like so many takes trying to sound like Tom Shane,
CP: We did, and we did not achieve it. They were both there in the outro, but we didn't do very well.
SB: We tried! If you stick around to the end, there are some good episodes this season, with some fun and funny and ridiculous things at the end of them.
CP: Yeah.
SB: Um, yeah, that was pretty good. Also, I will say just like silly moments, uh, in the show notes. Sometimes I'll try to like, put in random phrases and weird things to see if Cat will catch them, or—
CP: —You do fun stuff in the show notes! And you're always like, “We can edit if we need to.” I never edit. I just always like, whatever kind of weirdness you’ve got in there, I'm here for it.
SB: It’s already there—
CP: —Yeah! (Laughs)
SB: Yeah, mhmm.
Um, these are like, these are so much us. I think we should talk about maybe like, our best audience interaction. That'd be cool.
CP: Oh, I love that. Okay. I feel like I just have so many, so many things.
So I think one we've already talked about how like, Podlucks were awesome because we got to see people's faces. Um, that was awesome interaction.
I had a few style sessions with folks this year who were big ol’ fans, and it was just like really cute and sweet to talk to them about the pod, and just like, oh, it was such an honor for someone to be a fan of this project that we, you know, work on together.
Um, and then I guess maybe—there's more things. So we, I know we've discussed this, you and I, Saraya; I don't know if we've talked about it on the pod, but it feels like this season, people are just generally like, engaging with us a bit more, and like are sharing a bit more, and are sharing with us more, you know? Like, um, when we talk about different topics, maybe sharing something with—a story with us that relates to it, and um, it's just been really cool to be more in conversation with people.
Oh, okay, but if I had to pick one interaction, it would be this. So. Recently, I saw someone--I won't name them--but I saw someone, um, ‘cause I'm like, you know, on all of our socials. So I saw them like our podcast on Instagram and then like our podcast on Facebook, and then like my shop and then friend me on Instagram, and probably friend you on Instagram, but you're not gonna do it because you don’t add anyone—
SB: —(Laughs) Sorry!
CP: And I was like, who is this person? So I went to their page and it was just, oh my God. It was like the sweetest thing I've ever seen. Someone who like, recently started a new Instagram and who’s like recently coming into body positivity, and one of the few pictures on their Instagram page was a screen grab of their email from Weight Watchers that said like, “We've received your request to end Weight Watchers.”
Um, and it was just like, oh my gosh, this person is new to body positivity, has quit Weight Watchers, and is here for this learning and growth, and oh my gosh, it was just like, I just, it felt like, uh, like magic!
It's like, that's the exact hope that we have, like the kind of influence I hope that we have on folks to reconsider things that aren't serving them and to replace it with things that are more liberatory. And I think, um, I just, that, that interaction with that person was just incredible. And then we also DM’d a bit after that, but I just, gosh, that is like one of my favorite moments of the season.
SB: Yeah. I just, I'm so astonished when somebody shares with us that our project, this like, harebrained idea—it wasn't harebrained—but like, this random idea that I didn't, I was like, “Well, we'll try it. I don't know. It probably won’t work—”
CP: —Yeah, you were very noncommittal—
SB: —Manage those expectations babe, yeah!—
CP: —Now, here we are—
SB: Um, but like, to know that it's made a difference in somebody's life in a positive way is just, um, it's like the best that I could hope for in the world, to make a good impression and feel better about themselves. So, that's beautiful.
I think similarly for me, at one of the Podlucks, um, it was so much fun to see people all over the country tuning into that and just you know, speaking up or being quiet as they needed to process some of the information we were talking through. But at the end of our most recent one, this was really meaningful for me, somebody shared that they have really great friends and family, um, who they can talk through some of these topics with, but it's not quite the same as having a group of people who understand what being fat means and how that colors your world.
And they felt like they were in community with people. And that, oof, that hit me real hard, because that was our truest intent for the Podlucks and for our work here. And to have somebody say, like, “I really felt like this was meaningful and I got to talk with people and not feel alone in the world,” not that those were their words verbatim, but, um, just hearing that spoken out loud is amazing! Amazing.
CP: Yeah. So, so, so good. Ugh, keep ‘em coming, y'all! Like, we just look forward to continuing to engage with our audience into the next season and beyond, you know?
SB: And beyond— (laughs)
CP: And beyond!
Okay, next best: Saraya, what do you think are the best outtakes of the season?
SB: Oh my God. Uh, there are probably hours of breathing and mouth sounds and you, um (laughs) you telling Vivi to be quiet. Um, and us being like, nosy about our neighbors, but--oh, no no no. I have my favorite one.
We were—I don't remember what episode it was for.
CP: It was kinda recent, I think, like a month or two ago?
SB: Okay. I don't know, but like, I was really, like, into the gist of what we were talking about and I like legit pronounced “focus” FAW-kus.
CP: Yup, you sure did!
SB: And I just kept it moving. Like I didn't even—
CP: —Didn't even realize—
SB: —No, I think I did realize it. Like I said it, I was like, “Huh” (Laughs) Like in the middle of a sentence or something like that.
And we just laughed for like 30 minutes about “FAW-kas,” and then every time we've said something wrong since then we just, one of us will mumble, just like—
CP+SB: —“FAW-kas.”
CP: Yup. Yeah, that was, it just—because like, when you were just plowing through the sentence the first time around, like it just took you quite a beat to notice, like what was going on. That was good. That was a really good one.
SB: I think we were, we would've been like, trying to get that episode done for so long, too--
CP: (crosstalk) Yup, it was probably the end of the night—
SB: (crosstalk) And then I was so scared, uh, the next time, for the next take of it, I was like, “Oh, don't fuck it up. Don't--” (Cat laughs) ohp, oh, language--”Don't, don't mess it up. Don't eff it up. And then I think I blacked out and was like, by the end of it, I was like, “Cat, did I say it?” And you were like, “Yeah, you did fine—”
CP: —”You did it right!”—
SB: And I was like, “I don't know. I just did it.” (Laughs)
CP: Oh gosh.
SB: Oh, what was your favorite outtake?
CP: My favorite outtake actually was intended to be an outtake, but then was included in our episode.
So when we did the microaggression mini, we were like, done talking through everyone's situations and scenarios, and then you and I were just chatting and we still had the thing on record.
And I mean, like, I mean, we were truly just chatting. It's like, I wasn't, you know, thoughtfully talking into the microphone, but I was like, “You know?” Like it's—and I was just like, um, thinking through how your, the way you process through things and the way I process through things, like our suggestions were just, like, so different and also so aligned with who we are as people.
Um, and we had like this long talk about it.
And then at the end you were like, “Oh, I think we should include this.”
SB: Mhmm.
CP: Ok, and we did. And I just think it was so, um, like an accidental—such an accidental thing that was really lovely to be able to include in that minisode.
SB: Yeah, that was a good one. Wow. (Sighs)
I think, ok, so if we’re thinking about outtakes, maybe we talked about stuff that wasn't like specifically captured on, on the podcast. So what about, uh, best adventure pre-pandemic?
CP: Those two beautiful months before we knew what would come!
SB: (Laughs) We had no idea! We probably thought those were trash months too. And we had no idea.
CP: Honestly, yeah. Um, it was—so we went to Chicago, and I know you mentioned this earlier, but, um, our friend Mykall invited us to come to DePaul University to talk about fat liberation, to be in conversation with him and students. Uh, and it was awesome! And we stayed with our friends Susun, also, who you heard on the microaggression episode—we're really just keeping it all together.
Um, we went to King Spa and then Saraya and I drove back together and stopped at this amazing pie place and it was just—
SB: The Norske Nook?
CP: The Norske Nook, oh! And then you, Saraya, three months later, create—recreated the pie recipe for me for my birthday. Oh my God. I just—that Chicago little adventure was such a delight, and I think even more—it was awesome, uh, when it was happening, but like, knowing that it was one of the few things we got to do, and that we got to do together in real life this year, made it even more special.
SB: Yeah. Oh, Chicago was great. Um, I guess there wasn't a lot of time. Like I still, like I graduated, um, and had commencement during that time, but that wasn't like a podcast adventure.
So what's interesting is when I was thinking about this, I actually went to a place that wasn't pre-pandemic adventuring. So like, clearly I didn't read the prompt—
CP: —That’s ok—
SB: —But I was thinking that like, this wasn't so much of an adventure, but like a moment that was really meaningful to me, and to be with you during the protests in June.
CP: Yeah.
SB: So like the tension about the pandemic and the murder of Mr. Floyd was just like so much, but, um, the fact that we could be there together--not necessarily as Matter of Fat, but just as, like, two friends processing all of the emotions and tensions together in solidarity with our neighbors and people from all over the country was just like, really important, and I will remember that for my entire life.
CP: Yeah.
SB: Yeah. So--
CP: That sticks out to me, too, yeah.
SB: Yeah.
CP: I'm glad you mentioned that, even though it wasn't pre-pandemic.
SB: Yeah, ‘cause I mean, at that point I hadn't been--I mean, I’m fortunate enough not to like have to go out to work, and I can work from home and like be in my bubble, um, and so that was a big, like that whole time was a big choice to be like, “Okay, I'm gonna go out, and I'm gonna be with people.” And like you and I decided to—
CP: —Yeah!
SB: Yeah. And so that was really special in the midst of all of that.
CP: Yeah.
Um, okay. Let’s also talk about our best accomplishment for Matter of Fat this year.
SB: Mhmm. That sounds good. Yeah.
CP: Um, I'll go first! I’m really proud of our minisodes. Like, I wonder—I don't know if you all, like, I don't know, could sense the vibe as we were talking through them earlier, but like, they were just like, very--we worked very hard on them. We researched a lot, and had a lot to share, and I feel really proud that like these, um, these minisodes can be cited by others, right? Like if you need to share, you know, what fat liberation is with someone else, like, listen to our 14-minute minisode and educate yourself, or educate those around you. So like, I just, I'm so proud of those.
Um, and I would say another accomplishment, um, I'm really proud of our work with TPT. I love how we were able to like, write the article that corresponded with the piece, um, that came out around fitness and fatness. So those are the two big things I think that are, I would say, are our best accomplishments this year.
SB: Mhmm. Yeah, I agree, and also, my bar is significantly lower. (Laughs) Like, bruh, we had this project through a pandemic!
CP: Yeah.
SB: Like, I still can't believe we pulled it off.
CP: We did it!
SB: We did it. Yeah, we did it. And I think, you know, maybe this is time to get personal. Do you want to want to dive into some personal 2020 best-ofs?
CP: Okay. So we do have some personal prompts, um, and they are, like, very rooted in our 2020 realities (Laughs). Uh, we also got some, um, some of, uh, some responses from our awesome assistants who, uh, chimed in on a few of these as well.
SB: Okay. Let’s um—
CP: —So what should we start with?
SB: —Let's do best escapism media for 300, Alex. Aww! RIP!
CP: Oh! Awww.
SB: God, 2020’s the worst!
CP: 2020 did a lot, yeah.
SB: Ok, keep ‘er movin’, best escapism—
CP: —Best escapism media. Okay. Um, so I think, I don't know if we've talked about this on the podcast, but I somehow watched all eight seasons of Homeland in like a month, (Saraya laughs) um, early on—
SB: —What a dark time!
CP: (Laughs) It was a really dark time. Uh, it's been all about the suspenseful stuff for me. Like, that's been my greatest escape, and I think it's because, um, like my personal emotions are just so intense, I need something even more intense to distract me, and I found that in suspense media, specifically TV. Homeland was like the pinnacle of it, it was the best, and I mean, it wasn't--there was obviously issues with that series, but it really captivated me.
Um, I also find some of that suspense, unfortunately, uh, in cop shows, which I know are cop propaganda, um, but I regret to inform you that I have not been able to kick that habit. Um, they just feel very suspenseful too.
And then, kind of hard pivot, romance novels, of course. They have been just the best--they have been, continue to be, my favorite escape. Um, and then, one other--I mean, I've read other audiobooks that haven't been romance novels--but one incredible one that I have to mention that I know you just finished reading, Saraya, is Alyssa Cole's When No One is Watching. I mean.
SB: Oh my God, I just, hot off the presses yesterday. Just finished.
CP: It’s incredible. And the audiobook is exceptional. The narrators are just like--it is expert narration, and the narrators are so perfectly suited to the characters that they read for. Oh, it's just so good.
SB: Mhmm. If you like the movie Get Out, I think you will love this, this book. It's wonderful. We will ink it, because it is just, it is worth, worth a link in our shownotes to be sure.
So my escapism medium has actually been audiobooks?
CP: Yes!
SB: You finally got me, dude.
CP: Yes!
SB: Finally, it just took a pandemic and a lot of time at home. Um, it was, like, listening to audiobooks was a good way to keep moving, like do other activities but still take in a story.
Um, so, there's been a lot that I've read and listened to this year, which is good. Uh, but I also just like, with this, I was like, “How long has 2020 actually been?” So I looked up a list of all the shows that released on Netflix in 2020. And I just think we've lived through at least three years of programming. (Cat laughs) It's—it's just absolutely absurd.
Um, and I, I can't—so, instead of telling you my outright bests, I'm going to share a melange of what I watched that falls into two categories, okay?
CP: Okay.
SB: “Actually Good Things,” and “The Worst Best Thing.”
CP: Oh, I want—I'm so excited for your list, ‘cause like, I can already, I already know some of the things that’ll be on here.
SB: Yeah. And I didn't, like I didn't finish all of these, but some I did, and you won't know which is which. You won't know which ones I’ve finished—
CP: —Oh my God, you're not—(Laughs)
SB: You’re not gonna know which one I think is actually good, and which one is bad. It's just all of them for you.
CP: Wow. Okay. Give us that list.
SB: Some of them released this year. Others, no, brought ‘em back, so. Okay. Sweet Magnolias. Do we know about that one?
CP: Ehhh, I got through 20 minutes.
SB: Yup! Yup! Okay. Well, I think you've told the audience a little bit of where I got to with that one too. (Both laugh)
Similar, Heart of Dixie.
CP: Huh! Did not watch.
SB:: Rachel Bilson! Great—
CP: Oh, from the OC! From when we were young.
SB: Yeah, a little bit more recently, and just as ridiculous, if not more ridiculous.
Here's a fun one for you: Warrior Nun.
CP: Didn’t hear about that one!
SB: Warrior Nun. Netflix. It was released--I think it took place in Italy.
CP: Oh.
SB: Cause they definitely, uh, branched out and brought in like, other programming from other countries this year.
CP: Huh, yeah they did.
SB: With a title like that, how could you not?
CP: Right.
SB: Um, Warrior Nun. Okay. Teenage Bounty Hunters.
CP: Another doozy of a title.
SB: Yup! Really just (Laughs) went into some dark places. Again, you don't know, did I watch all of it? Did I watch none? Well, like a portion of it, like 20 minutes of it? We don't know.
October Faction. A little supernatural-y, a little, another—you know, Netflix just really churned out content and I don't know how they did it.
Um, here's the Hulu one: Woke. That was great.
CP: Did I watch that? I can't think of what that's even about.
SB: Um, it has, it has—played by Lamorne Morris.
CP: Oh, I love him!
SB: Yeah. Did you watch it?
CP: No, I didn't watch this.
SB: It's quite good—
CP: —Wait, it’s really bad though, right? No, it's good?
SB: No! No, well, I'm telling you now, I guess. No, it's good. It has Sasheer Zamata in it, too.
CP: Oh! Okay, I'm confusing this with another thing that he's in that's bad that came out this year. I can't remember what it is though.
SB: New Girl? Just kidding. Oh, I watched that! I sure watched that--
CP: —Not New Girl, it’s that other one. Yeah.
SB: It’s another Netflix, but that's a movie. Yeah, I watched that, that was bad. Um, yeah, it also has Blake Anderson in it for all the Workaholics fans out there.
Okay, in any case, Woke. I would say that's a good one.
Uh, Too Hot To Handle. Nope?
CP: Not, not something I tuned into.
Wow. Okay. Awkwafina is Nora from Queens. Um, Emily in Paris. (Both laugh) Um, Gossip Girl.
CP: You and your Gossip Girl—
SB: —I hit Gossip Girl hard this--recently. Very hard. Ok—
CP: —Do you know that it's leaving? Actually, this is an update I should have given you off air.
It's leaving Netflix at the end of the year. My coach, Shannon, is also very into Gossip Girl, and the other day I was like, “You and Saraya Boghani” to her, because she always shows it on her story and just like, oh my God, the only two people in my entire life who ever talk about Gossip Girl ever, you and Shannon.
Um, and so she told me to tell you that it's leaving, in case you didn't know.
SB: Oh, thank you. No, this is good. In real time, we're figuring this out. Um, yeah. Okay. I will say, I think this was much more of like, a comfort watch--not that any of the content is comforting. It is, uh, it's, it's like a soap-- it is a soap opera. I'm pretty sure it was on the soap opera channel for a long time. Um, I will say the music is excellent. It's so good. And going back to it is like, the perfect time capsule of popular music at the time. Um, but like, good popular music. So, yeah. There's that.
Um, I'm not done yet though. Okay. There's Quantico.
CP: We got, we got more? Oh, Quantico! You got me into Quantico, that is so good. That's suspense too! That, ooo, it’ll wrap you up, ooo.
SB: Mmm, that good copaganda. It’ll getcha. Ok—
CP: —It’s, yup, and it’s also like FBI, so is it any better? No! But I can pretend it is?
SB: Yeah, you can. It’s all fantasy, baby.
CP: Yup.
SB: Um, Outer Banks. That was suspenseful.
CP: It was! You got me into that, too. And I, I, it wasn't like my fave-fave, but I did like it.
SB: Yeah. Yeah. Dave—
CP: —Dave! I forgot that came out this year, the longest year. Oh my gosh.
SB: Yes. Um, let's see. There's this show called Travel Man, that's like a British show with, um, Richard Ayoade. Um, so I watched a lot of YouTube episodes of that. Uh, Black AF, uh, that was released on Netflix--
CP: —I forgot that came out, yeah, mhmm.
SB: I know! Floor is Lava, um, Insecure, uh, Schitt's Creek—
CP: —Oh, which really had a moment this year, ending everything.
SB: I know. I mean, perfect timing really. And then, uh, Queen Sono.
CP: Yeah!
SB: Actually, you were the one who suggested I watch that.
CP: Well ‘cause I heard like the director or the producer of it being interviewed on NPR, and he said that like, uh, Homeland was one of his inspirations, (Laughs) I was like, “Gotta watch this.”
SB: It all comes together. Um, and I know this isn't riveting, like, podcasting right now. So, there are more, there are others, but my brain is clearly worms after all of this, so you know, that's all you're gonna get.
CP: This is quite the list, Saraya. I would talk about. I mean, escapism. Um, and for another tidbit, for escapism media Lindsay weighed in!
LB: Hey everyone, it's Lindsay. I wanted to share my favorite piece of escapism media from this year with y'all, which was definitely the Boulet Brothers Dragula. So it's a drag competition show. You can watch a couple of seasons of it on Netflix, but it's all like horror drag artists, primarily Queens. But in the seasons that I watched, there was like one King and some other just general drag artists.
Um, they just have these like incredible challenges. The talent is also off the wall. Like the looks they create are so incredible. Sometimes they're really creepy. Sometimes they're really extreme. Um, I don't know. I just really loved it and I expected to like it, but I was really, really taken by it the way that they shoot the floor shows where everyone shows off their looks is so like dramatic and engaging.
Um, it's definitely a reality show. Like there were parts of it where there's drama, that's like kind of corny, but there were also some really like real parts in the, you know, that make you like a little bit emotional. I just really loved it like more than I expected to. So I would really highly recommend if you're interested in like horror or like drag or even just like a competition reality show. I really don't think you can go wrong if you stream Dragula.
SB: Alright. Let's get into informative media.
CP: Ooh, good call. I, I guess I will name two things.
Um, the first is the daily podcast in the New York times. This, um, like I started listening every day, cause it was on my daily drive on Spotify. And I just, now I sometimes don't listen to my daily drive, but I'll seek this podcast out. It just feels very informative. And it's where I've gotten a lot of information about a lot of things, but especially Corona in ways that feel like factual and not sensationalized and very helpful.
And then also a book that came out toward the end of the year that I recently read well listened to of course, called What We Don’t Talk About When We Talk About Fat by Aubrey Gordon, who used to be used to write anonymously as your fat friend, and now is in the world, uh, without a pen name and with just her and came out with this book that was very well put together. It was a great book, and kind of does a lot of honestly what we try to do in our minisodes, it like really breaks down, um, different, I don't know, parts of fat life reality, sharing stories from people, but also talking about the information to like really back up the injustices that fat people are experiencing.
SB: Similarly for me actually is Maintenance Phase, which is Aubrey’s podcast that launched recently --
CP: --Yeah look at her, two times in our best informative media!
SB: Yeah, cause it just does a great job of breaking down a lot of the concepts that we are interested in and she and Michael Hobbes do a great job of putting out some good content. So I thought that was good informative media. As far as podcasts go, I also just really enjoy Planet Money.
CP: Did you get your, your, planet money this summer? (Saraya laughs) Tell the people about that! That was so incredibly cute!
SB: They did this summer school kind of program where you could listen to different episodes that they put together to cover really specific topics and economics. And I didn't get it in time, so I didn't get my diploma from the Planet Money school. But, I love that they did that. That was just really creative.
CP: How fun!
SB: Also, their TikTok is on fire. It’s so good. Yeah.
CP: I say that as if I'm on Tiktok, I still don’t have a Tiktok.
SB: I had a Tiktok and then I got rid of it.
CP: I hope that they share those on Instagram reels—
SB: —They do—
CP: —Because that’s where someone of my age lives.
SB: Oh my gosh. It's also on their Twitter. So it's fine. I think TikTok as a whole has been informative and escapist media actually I'll put that out there. And then I think there was another informative media piece that, that we were talking about. You should actually, you should talk about it. It's the Instagram Morning Show.
CP: Oh yeah. Oh, that's so great. Yeah. So more recently here, there is this, like, it feels like a very local, s lightly snarkier version of The Daily Show, from On Site Public Media called Good Morning Minneapolis, hosted by Toussaint Morrison, and it's just, it's been actually keeping me very informed it, like they spare no detail, or snark when talking about our city council and our mayor and the decision-makers in our city. They also share a lot of mutual aid opportunities and good stuff going on in the community as well.
SB: It's so much fun to see that and kind of similar, well, not similar, but more of like that kind of public, informative media, I would say Unicorn Riot has really been on my radar this year.
CP: Oh yeah.
SB: This year.
CP: Yeah. More than ever before for me.
SB: Yeah. Something really powerful about like, seeing your city through the lens of people who are on the ground trying to tell true stories instead of like the bigger narratives that maybe get packaged up for later presentation.
CP: Yeah, absolutely. They're a great one to mention.
SB: I mean, like to go in that space, like maybe we talk about some coping mechanisms outside of media. So like what has been, um, a coping mechanism that you've enjoyed or a few?
CP: Uh, okay. I guess I have two I can share. The first is: this year, I -- (Cat laughs) It’s so dorky,
SB: Why are you laughing so much? I’m scared.
CP: I really got into this coloring app on my phone. It's called Happy Color and it's free and it's oh, my, my banging radiators trying to like make this commercial for Happy Color not be great. Um, It's called Happy Color —
SB: —-We’re not sponsored.
CP: No, we're not.
It's called Happy Color. It's free. It's like a color by number thing. And every day they release a new one, like new coloring sheets. Some of them I don't like, like the Disney ones I'm not into, but I really love drawing people, cause like the hair is really or -- coloring in -- people because their hair is really fun to do. And then I like food and I like the travel ones and sometimes like the decor ones.
Anyway, I just, I'm so into it. And like, so what I do if I really need to chill out is like, I will lay in bed or lay on my couch and watch a TV show, either something suspenseful or something simple that I've watched a million times before and I'll just—
SB: —Frasier.
CP: Oh my God. Frasier all year. Or sometimes I listen to my audiobooks and color in my app, but like that has just really been great. I will say though, I think it's bad for me in some ways too, cause it's like bad for my eyes. It's also bad for my finger. Like I'm just like on my phone two more hours a day than I need to be. Um, but God, I love it. And then I guess, Oh, go ahead.
SB: Would you do like normal color by numbers stuff you think?
CP: Maybe, but I don't think I'd find it as satisfying because it wouldn't look as good. Like I wouldn't, I don't know. I mean, I have coloring books. I just, I don't know.
SB: Yeah. Interesting.
CP: Yeah. Oh, and I used to play this game called Two Dots on my phone and I was addicted and also like, not very good at it. So this is great because it requires zero skill. And also like it's, everything's free. It's like sometimes on Two Dots, like I would be compelled to like buy upgrades, which like no one needs to spend money on that and on to, or on in Happy Color. I don't need to pay for anything. It's just always there. So that's a heap, been a huge coping mechanism this year.
And then also, two of my besties, they're married. We are on like a Snapchat. I think the kids are calling it a streak. I don't know if we have a streak really, but it's like, we have the Snapchat group and we just talk to each other all every day. And it is just like such a gift. And have we always used to be in touch there. But this year it's felt so much more important because we haven't been able to see each other as much in real life, especially now that it's getting colder and we can't be in the backyard together.
SB: Yeah. I like that. That's really good. Technology as coping.
CP: Yeah. How about you?
SB: Um, so as it were like an activity on your phone, so do you remember at that part of the pandemic when everybody was like, I live in Animal Crossing?
CP: Oh my gosh. Yeah, I never did, but everyone else seemed to. Did you?!
SB: Well, we, no, I don't have, I don't have, I have a Wii. That's the extent of my gaming that I've ever owned in my life. I never even had a Game Boy as a kid. So I though do you have a phone and Nintendo does have Animal Crossing “Pocket Camp” is what it's called. And it's basically a smaller version of Animal Crossing: New Horizons. So I have, I have kept up with it. I have! It’s cute. It's real cute. And it's real easy. And it is something satisfying about doing very easy tasks and like you, you can only do them for so long before, like there are no more apples to connect, collect, or no more shells to collect. And, um, I have like a level, 120 or something, at this point.
CP: Okay!
SB: It's ridiculous. Um, but very satisfying. So there's that. And. I think walking has been like a coping mechanism for me.
CP: Yeah.
SB: Uh, not that I get to like go on long walks every day. Uh, I just don't like where I live in the city. I don't think in the times of day that I can do it based on my work, aren't like conducive to doing that, but I love, I love going and checking out a new trail and actually my mom and I have routinely on the weekends, gone out to a less populated place and taken a walk together. So that's been nice. Um, yeah.
Uh, other things, listening to music! I've really gotten into listening to music again. So that's been a nice coping mechanism and I miss concerts. Like I think prior to the pandemic, I was like, eh, I could take her, leave a concert. Um, but now I'm like, yep. Yep.
CP: Need ‘em, want ‘em.
SB: Can't wait, can't wait. Can't wait. Um, But like, it's also comfortable to not, you know, go out and about and wear whatever you want from the comfort of your own home. So maybe, maybe we talk about what was the comfiest thing that you wore?
CP: Oh, hands down. My Universal Standard bike shorts.
SB: Okay.
CP: They're just so comfy. And I just like, I'm home a bunch and I just, well, even when I'm not home, I'm just like very athleisure-d out. So it's bike shorts or leggings, but these bike shorts are really like my home routine, or my home uniform rather. And then I'm in sports bras. And as we've discussed previously on the pod, I like a good house shoe. And actually I now have a pair of shoes, a pair of Birkenstocks that I only wear in the house. They arrived last year without the buckle. And like, they were broken when they came, which like Birkenstocks come on. And I missed my return window, which is like #ClassicCat. But I was like “I’m just wearing these inside”, like, they don't need to look cute...so I with some twine --
SB: (Saraya laughs) Oh no—
CP: Like made a buckle or tied them together. So now I just wear them around my house all the time. And that's what I wear every time I'm home.
SB: I don’t know why, but when you said twine and you trying to like rig your shoe together and reminded me that I should add Survivor to my watch list.
CP: Oh!
SB: Yeah.
CP: Alex, I remember he mentioned that in his interview.
SB: Yeah. But I just, yeah, I just watched it recently and remembered how great it is. Um, and ridiculous. Also, I think I like it more than I did as a kid because, uh, Jeff Probst is like me. He's really mean in it and I love it.
CP: Yeah.
SB: He's the host, and so like when they're doing all these competitions, he'll be like, ”Wow, really failing at this competition stuff!”. And then like when a team doesn't win at the end, he'll be like, “Got nothing for ya. Go on home”. Very funny. Yeah. Um, okay. So for me though, like bringing it back to what we were talking about --
CP: Yeah, comfiest thing!
SB: it's the same answer, the leggings Universal Statement. They're like butter and they only get like more comfortable over time, but they start out very comfortable. So that's all I got, I think, but I, I don't know. I still really liked wearing dresses and stuff and like fun clothes inside the comfort of my own home.
CP: Oh I love that. I think that's important too. Like, comfort has become queen this this year. And also it's nice to be able to dress up and, um, and like for ourselves. Right? Cause I think it can be such a mood booster.
SB: Yeah. Which is actually didn't we talk about that in one of our episodes about like, dressing however you want is like, really important in the pandemic.
CP: Yeah! So covered.
SB: We already, we already covered. Okay. So comfy done! Crying! (Saraya laughs)
CP: Oh here we go. Another hallmark of the year 2020.
SB: That was such a natural transition, yeah? But like, what is the best cry that you've had this year?
CP: Oh, my gosh. I think I've cried more this year than I have since I was like a teenager. I mean, hello, water works.
Uh, I okay. I would put two really great cries above the rest, which I will share with you. Um, and I would say most of the other cries in my life are just like, when I'm in the car, listening to music. Oh my God. That is what really does it for me.
Um, but, and I guess like one of my notable cries was not too far off. Um, so before the pandemic hit, I actually went to Germany for two weeks and had just like the most wonderful vacation, and was just so full of emotion. Cause I hadn't been back in 10 years and there was this moment when I was on the train from Munich to back to Frankfort where I was like rounding up my trip. Um, and I had just been spending time with some of my friends that I see, like we see each other every five years. So I hadn't seen them for five years and. We spent the weekend together in Munich and I'm on the train and I'm like listening to music and it was just like a day in the sun with like the outside looks so beautiful and we're moving so fast and I love train travel and I'm sitting in this comfy thing and I'm thinking, oh my God, in two days I have to go home. And I just had the best cry. Um, on my German train.
And so that was, that was definitely, I don't know, one of the best, it just like feels that trip was just so full of emotion for me. Um, and I think crying is just like such a good release, you know? So that was one and the other was, I will share a little insider info with the people, you know this Saraya but most of the world doesn't so, and I won't share too much, but, um, this summer, the whole summer, I was part of a very long like interview audition process for something pretty big that I was really excited about and was really like all in for like I was, I just worked really hard,
um, through this process and was really focused. And it was good for me because the summer was really rough. And so it was like something to be able to spend my energy on. Um, and I made it to the very, very, very, very end. Um, and then at the, at like the last possible, you know, we want you, or we don't, um, they decided they didn't want me. Um, and I like, around that time, just had the most, like in my feelings, cry myself to sleep night.
Um, and it was just so good for me! You know, it was like this, I had, there was so much like pent up energy and emotion in this whole process. And it was just good for me to like, let myself be sad for a minute, you know? Um, and just like kind of cry it out. And then I won't say that, like that was done, snap my fingers, everything's better. But I think like that big allowing myself to have that big moment of just like, Oh, I suck so much, um, uh, release of energy and emotion, like was really helpful in me trying to, trying to move, move through it, you know?
SB: Yeah. I appreciate how you frame that because like, a cry is complex. I think a lot of times people just associate it with sadness or disappointment, but it's like so many things and the fact that it could be cathartic for you in that way. It's really beautiful. Yeah.
CP: Well what about you?! Tell me about any good cries you had this year.
SB: I don’t think I like any of my cries? I don't think I, um, I cry more that's for sure.
CP: 2020 baby!!
SB: The year of the tears. Um, I, cause I think, there's just a lot of tension at all times, or like an undercurrent of strong, intense emotions at all times. And so I'm more predisposed, like, okay, you show me something where somebody's being just like, kind to somebody on TV (Cat laughs) or like the simplest things like, yep! I'm going to cry. Okay. It's time for me to cry now.
Like there's a reason why I—there's lots of reasons why I don't watch Queer Eye and there's a lot of reasons why I don't watch This Is Us, but like part of it is because the producers have manufactured ways for people to have like emotive responses. And I feel like I'm already on that. (Laughs) So I do not need to watch these shows cause I'm gonna cry anyways.
Um, I think, okay. One that, that does come to mind. I was walking, I was taking a long walk outside and I was listening to this book. It's called Pet and it's beautiful. And I really cried because at one point, um, it's like a young character assigned male at birth, and then they're like basically coming out, um, as like transgender to their parents. And it's an, it's an alternate, like a near future reality. It's a little bit different, but their parents are just like, oh, sorry about that. Like, we love you. Like thank you for telling us. And I just like broke down in the woods because it was like, why can't it be this easy for everyone?
CP: Yeah.
SB: Like, why can't it be that easy for people to just accept people who they are and the way that this author imagined that and wrote it out on paper was just so revelatory to me. So that was a good cry, I guess. Go read that book.
CP: Yeah. A cry brought on by an audiobook! Here for it.
SB: Yeah. That book is beautiful, and also like, really difficult too at the same time. I think that's, that's where I'm at. Kindness is really getting me. Yeah.
CP: But I mean, that's like, I don't know a sweet, lovely thing to be moved to tears over.
SB: I just want more of it, you know, just make me cry all the time, please.
CP: Yeah. For another big, good cry. We have a one that Cindy shared with us.
CK: My biggest cry, or like, the best cry I've had this year is a little bit embarrassing. So I have extreme anxiety a lot of the times. And so I tend to watch the same shows over and over again because I know what's going to happen.
Please don't judge me, but I loveeeee Grey's Anatomy. Okay. And I am doing a rewatch right now and, I think it was on Thanksgiving. I was, if you're watching this spoiler alert, but it, this is like, uh, this isn't like season 11 and the show is on season 17 now. So spoiler alert. But the episode whe one of the main characters gets hit by a car and dies and leaves behind his wife and three and two kids. And for whatever reason. So I always bawl at this episode, but I was like uncontrollable sobbing and it was so--cathartic because I think it wasn't just like, I don't think it was just about that.
I—in a leading up to watching that episode, I've just been having a tough time lately and I've been feeling really stressed out, um, between school and work and all the other things I have going on in between. And so I think I wasn't just crying the loss of Derek Sheperd, but also just everything that is going on right now and all the uncertainty that exists in the world. I'm gonna, hey, man. I probably cried for like half an hour, so, but, and then I kept and I kept watching episodes and I just, everything after like I just kept crying and it was wow. I, it was a really good cry.
CP: Okay. Next best thing. Um, what is the best thing you ate this year?
SB: Yeah, so Apple is rude and they organized all of my pictures from like late last year to like this time, this year and put together a video for me. And a lot of the food pictures featured, uh, food from our LA trip last year.
CP: Oh my gosh.
SB: Um, I so mad. I am so angry that I can't shove that food in my mouth. It was like this, these amazing salads and soft scrambled eggs from Gjusta in Venice beach and it's amazing croissant from Konbi and then also our Chicago trip too. Just like really, really great food. And it was so pretty too. But, um, I guess that doesn't really answer the question. That's just me sharing my fire for not being able to go and eat those foods.
CP: How dare you, Apple!
SB: This Apple is so rude. It's so rude. Okay. Um, also all the food I got to eat in New York last year. Okay. I'm too much. So the thing is the best things that I've eaten this year. I'm actually like, have been based on who gave them to me.
CP: Awww.
SB: And like I told you, like, the kindness makes me cry. It's like, Oh my God, God, you took time to make this. And then you got it to me in the midst of a pandemic. So like, uh, treats for my friends. So like homemade chicken broth, cherry almond scones, pumpkin spice, chocolate chip cookies, um, leftovers from my family, just like all of that is so delicious. And so like. It's like chicken soup for my soul! Chicken soup for the millennial (Laughs). I would say that, no, like if we're going to talk about some really cool businesses that I've enjoyed this year in particular Zettas sandwiches —
CP: —You love them!
SB: Handmade, flatbread, handmade, ricotta, and, uh, to like tons of greens thrown in there too. So good. And then Asa’s Bagels, it's killing it. Always. Delicious. Love it. Um, but that’s me what it was the best thing that you've eaten?
CP: I honestly cannot answer. I've just eaten so many things this year. Many of them have been incredible. Um, I've been cooking more, which is fun, but I wouldn't say any of my stuff is like the best thing. Um, I've also been like, really listened to our governor and getting carryout everywhere. Don't you love how he, like, “We're not going to give any money to these places, but, uh, everyone, please go patronize them”. Well, I am! And I just have gotten a lot of really great takeout, but --
SB: Okay. Well, I think we should talk about how we went and got Grand Catch and then had a picnic that was amazing.
CP: That was soooo good. That was definitely one of the best things. Grand Catch is always top 10 of my list. So, so that's so good. Yeah, that was really, really good. Okay. So maybe, maybe that's just what it is. Maybe I'll say that's the best thing that I ate and I cannot wait to eat more Grand Catch (Cat laughs).
SB: Let's hear from Erin though. Let's hear what she enjoyed.
ES: So dealing with the pandemic though, when you're fat has been hard, definitely turning to emotionally eating and all that stuff, but let me tell you. I have ate some of the best food of my life during quarantine. I feel like I have made some of the best food I've ever made and I'm trying to turn the emotional eating into positive cheffing and I love all the food I've been making, but particularly made some incredible Larb um, this amazing Vietnamese dish. And that was one of the best things I ever put in my body.
SB: Okay. So since I was crying earlier about the kindness, let's talk about the most or the best heartwarming moment we've had this year.
CP: Oh, it's hard for me to pinpoint like one moment. Exactly. But a series of lots of moments. Um, my Cake customers have been so kind to me, I mean, little notes and little gifts and treats and cards and gifts of clothing to Cake. I mean, just like so many things from so many people and it has really just warmed my heart. So very much this year.
SB: Aw I love that.
CP: Oh, people, people are so good and so good to me. Um, so yeah, I think those are my, my Cake customers have created like a real series of heartwarming moments. How about for you?
SB: You deserve that.
Okay. Um, for me, so during the protests and the riots, I think, uh, it was really heartwarming to see our neighborhoods come together and support each other. It felt really magical. Um, I guess my favorite moment was when I was doing a run to Costco. Uh, so like the cities were completely shut down or in that time, like everything's boarded up, everything's shut down. Um, and like, I went to St. Louis Park and it felt like a different world. Like, nothing was different there and it felt like a slap in the face. I was like, how are you all carrying on your lives when everybody is just like an uproar, but in any case, I like went into Costco.
And I ended up in the diaper section and I don't know, I've not purchased diapers recently. I don't have kids. So I don't know the differences between the generic and the Huggies or whatever brand that you want to talk about. And I see another girl there and we're just like kinda standing there. Like flummoxed as to what we're supposed to do or like, and then we're like, which brand do you think is better? I don't know which brand do you think is better? And it's like, we clearly never had to do this before, but we're here for the same reason, which is, you know, we've gathered money from friends and other people. Um, we ran out here to like pick up supplies so we could go drop off to a neighborhood that's in need because, uh, you know, the grocery stores are shut down. All of the places are shut down and it was just like that kinship was really amazing.
And then I was like going to check out and it's a weekend at Costco in the pandemic, and it's just like, so overwhelming, the lines are long, but then one of the employees like comes over to me. He's like, hey, come over this way. And there's like a secret checkout. And he just like checked me out so quickly. And then I realized when I looked back at the receipt, which also like, I have, and then they also check at the door, but he didn't charge me for like the pallets of waters that I had. And I was just like, wow, like, all of these little kindnesses, just building on each other. I, I think there's like the concept of death by a thousand cuts. And I feel like racism and the injustice in our world is that to so many people all the time, but it was like experiencing life by a thousand cares.
CP: Awwww!! (Saraya laughs)
SB: I don't think that's very poetic, but it's like these little attempts, and and these little acts of care and sharing care with others was just really important to see an experience at that time. And then like, going to North and seeing how all of these volunteers had organized this really efficient system for people to just come through and drop off any resources for that neighborhood and for those families. And it was just like all these people coming together. I think that was the most heartwarming moment for me in 2020.
CP: Oh, I love that.
SB: Oh, I talked a lot just then.
CP: But it was good. I love your, I remember hearing this story when it happened about Costco, but it was just like, so it just like this very, like we're all in this together kind of spirit, you know?
SB: Yeah. I think, and like that was so small in comparison with all the work that volunteers and our neighbors did to like, help provide just life to people during those hard times. So I'm just really impressed with that. Especially since I think the story that people took away is that, oh, Minneapolis is totally destitute. Minneapolis is ruined from this. And it's like, no, not my Minneapolis. I don't think so. But let's, let's keep her moving. Let's keep her moving.
CP: I am, I am so interested to see how long this episode is. This will definitely be our longest episodes!
SB: It’s the bests, baby!!
CP: But the bests deserve the time that we're giving to them. So let us let's keep going.
SB: Let's keep going. So what was your best, unexpected moment of the year?
CP: Okay. Only one big moment that comes to mind, and we were together, Saraya!
So we, um, so of course contained an election. I was hopeful that Biden would win, but also as like not feeling very celebratory, like, okay, well, we're going to like be happy that we did like the least bad thing, you know? You and I have planned like, not related to any election, anything, but that week we had planned to go spend time outside together.
SB: Mmhmm.
CP: So we were outside and it was just like a weirdly warm day. And you brought me macaroons and we had snacks and--oh, see, you brought me stroopwafel. I mean, like, I just felt like I was like, it, we're eating snacks. We're outside. We're spending time together. The weather was lovely. And then like people started beeping and stuff and we're like, Oh, what is this jovial? What is this? You know, why are people in such a good mood? And we realized it was because the election had been called. Um, and I just like the, the feeling of, I don't know, relief and celebration caught me off guard because like I said, I was not expecting to be happy about this at all. You know, like more happy than Trump, but still like, not happy, but I just, it caught me so off guard.
SB: Mmhmm.
CP: It felt so good to be there with you and all of these people around us. And I mean, like the honking cars, the people, you know, playing like “Party in the USA”, like their windows, people just, you know, strangers greeting each other and waving and cheering and honking. And honestly like, felt like I was in New Orleans. It was just, it was such an unexpected moment that I just will remain. It's one of the top moments of my whole year.
SB: Yeah. Oh, such a good one. We were hanging out at Lake of the Isles and so there's like, a lot of car traffic, but then also people traffic. And I think in the pandemic, I've forgotten what it feels like to be in a public setting. Just like where you have a shared experience with other people, it just feels really removed. And so we were by this one house that just had giant Biden/Harris posters on it and very fancy house. And like people were honking and I have been ignoring the news, like actively ignoring it. I did not think it would be called on that Saturday. And then when I realized what was happening, I was like, wait, what? And I looked at my phone and the thing is, I heard about the change through other people, like in my life through texts and then you, and then just like being in the environment. And I think that's also something different too, because news has just dominated everything.
CP: Yeah.
SB: I think. That's I don't know for better or worse news has really dominated the way that I engage with information. And so the fact that I learned this from my circles and from literally the people honking in plain, celebrate. Yeah. I feel like this is America, which was a weird choice, but driving around multiple times is blaring great music or like people, the old white man banging, a pot and pan.
CP: Oh, yeah!
SB: And it was like, this is wacky. It's also exciting to see joy. See so much joy. At that moment. So yeah.
CP: Oh, we had the, we had the same best unexpected moment. I love that for us.
SB: It was great.
CP: So good.
SB: Hey, so that was a beautiful unexpected moment. I think we should look ahead to 2021. Also this podcast episode is going to be quite long. So what are we looking forward to, uh, with the podcast and personally in 2021?
CP: Oh 2020, whoop. Nope.
SB: I love it. It's got its grips in you. We're going to, we're going to push it. Let's get into 2021.
CP: 2021!
Okay. So in terms of Matter of Fat, you know, I feel like this season we've just gotten better and stronger and established better routines for ourselves. And I think it's been like some growth that's happened continually year after year. So I'm just—I don't have a lot of specifics, but I'm just really hopeful for what this next year will bring for us.
And I guess one specific I would share is that I think I'm confident in saying that we will start our season earlier this year than the seasons before. And I think we've always intended to start them quite early and then they start to come out like May/June time. Um, but I think that it'll be much earlier in 2021. So I'm looking forward to that. (Saraya knocks on wood) Are you knocking on wood over there?!
SB: (Saraya laughs) Yeah. Wow. I love it though. You're confident.
CP: I'm pretty confident going into the season. Yeah. Okay. Um, and then I guess, you know, uh, uh, I don't know, I'm not so sure what 2021 will bring, but I do believe that at some point I'll be able to reopen my shop storefront and start to get my business back on track and that will be really great and really needed. You know, I feel like a lot of things have been in a bit of a standstill in my world, cause my life is so connected to my work and I'm just excited to get back to like that strong forward momentum that I really had going for me in the shop.
And, you know, to be honest, I haven't really given a lot of thoughts, my 2021 goals yet, and I think there is a lot to be said about that. I'm really dragging my feet and I think it, well, if I'm being honest, it's like last year 2019 was just like a banger year for me. I was so I achieved almost everything that I had set out to, which is not usually my speed. Usually I have lots of goals and, you know, managed some of them, but I did almost everything. And then this year has not been as much of a clean sweep, a lot of things that were left undone, just because of the situation we're in.
So though my confidence is shaken. I do need to get back to my usual kind of dreaming and scheming itself. Get some 20, 21 goals on paper. But at this point I couldn't tell you what they are. I think the other things that I am looking forward to are very much rooted in exiting this pandemic. So I know that's not going to happen as we go into the new year, like right away. But I hope at some point in 2021, I can, you know, touch people, see my mom, eat at a restaurant, go to a group fitness class. Oh, go to community acupuncture if they haven't closed because of all this. Of course we don't know when, but I imagine at some point next year, many of these things might be a possibility.
SB: Yeah. That was like similar for me. And I couldn't really extricate whether, what I hope for the future is for 2021 or just like a post-pandemic experience.
CP: Feels very interrelated.
SB: Yeah. But also like not, because I think adapting to the end of the pandemic actually might be really challenging for me. Yeah. I think there are just going to be some fears or some worries that I have about like fully. diving into the world again, but I really do. I just want to go other places. I just want to travel.
Like the Aurora Borealis was, you know, available to us a few days ago and I mean, not in Minneapolis, there's too much light pollution. I was like, oh my god, I want to go to Iceland to just go watch the Aurora. I started looking up travel plans. It's like, what are you doing? I'm like, stop calm down. But maybe one day and like hugging my friends and family again. I think this is kind of a weird one, but slowing down sounds so bizarre.
CP: Yeah.
SB: But, actually in 2020, I've been really busy in the midst of all of this. Fortunately, like I had stability with the podcast, with my job and then with NLC being able to like do a whole leadership experience, um, and then join the board. So it's been like a lot of different projects for me, which has been fun. But also like if you kind of chill out a little bit, somehow none of those things will change next year, but I just think figuring out a good way to balance it is really helpful. And then. Yeah. With the podcast, like for 2021, I've always been so tentative with this project.
CP: Bless your heart you really have.
SB: But I think we have too, I think every time we go into a season where like, we'll do it and we'll see how it goes. Um, but like, I, I love that the pandemic didn't break this project for us. I love that so much,
CP: Same. And honestly like has just been such a light in 2020, you know? And I think we'll continue to be, even though we're not confined to only being in our own home.
SB: Did you ”Bless your heart”, me? (Laughs)
CP: Yeah. ‘Cause you have been tentative AF. (Laughs) Yeah, I guess we'll, we'll try it Cat. We'll see what happens.
SB: Hmm. I can't say anything. ‘Cause I said, I love when we roast each other.
CP: So, and also you roast me way more than I roast you. I'm going to take this one.
[THEME MUSIC FADES IN, FADES OUT]
SB: I’m just incredibly grateful to you and our audience who have chosen to spend their time with us. Time is precious and the topics we dive into, aren't always rosy and fun.
CP: We want to share our sincerest love and thanks to everyone listening and supporting our pod. We love you, and we appreciate you.
SB: I'm astonished at what we've been able to do in this and the most widely destabilizing year in recent history.
CP: Yep!
SB: This podcast has been a beautiful project, built on friendship and trying to make the world a slightly brighter and kinder and funnier place.
CP: And if you've enjoyed our little recap of Season Three and 2020, and want to join us for more, you can on Wednesday, December 30th at 7:00 PM Central, we're going to be on Instagram Live and would love for you to come through. There's no in real life end of season celebration this year, obviously. But you can join us in the chat and maybe Saraya and I will even be together and can have folks kind of pop into the live with us. That's all very TBD. But we'd love to see you there.
SB: Yeah, I just can't wait to celebrate.
CP: Same same, same. And also, would you share Matter of Fat, with a friend in the off season, or give us a follow on the socials or rate and review our pods so we can come back even stronger with Season Four?
SB: I think you should. And I think that we wish you rest and peace and joy, and we'll be with you again for Season Four of—
CP + SB: —Matter of Fat!