S5E5: Fat Dish: Fair Memories, Corn Friends, And Medical Anti-Fat Bias
Season 5, Episode 5:
Fat Dish: Fair Memories, Corn Friends, And Medical Anti-Fat Bias
Released on August 30th, 2022. For complete episode info, visit this page!
CP: I love corn. I love you. Let's be corn friends.
SB: Let's be corn friends.
[TRANSITION MUSIC FADES IN, FADES OUT]
CP: Welcome to Matter of Fat, a body positive podcast with Midwest sensibilities. Hi, I'm Cat Polivoda; a local fat feminist and shop owner, and after all three of Cake's fat beach days, I can report: I'm ready for fall. I'm joined by my cohost and producer, Saraya Boghani.
SB: Hi, I'm Saraya. I'm a fat, multiracial, Minneopolitan millennial who is a sucker for those end of summer September days. Cat, fall is coming and I'm ready for it.
CP: Yeah! On Matter of Fat, we're here to talk about the cultural politics of fat liberation with a Midwest perspective.
SB: And we're back with another Fat Dish episode. So it's a chattier extension of our check-ins during our interview episodes, and a little different than the minisode revisit that we just released.
CP: Oh yeah. We have so much to chat about. I cannot wait to get into it. So, um, let's go.
[TRANSITION MUSIC FADES IN, FADES OUT]
CP: Let’s kick it off with some Matter of Fat dish, and Saraya, I am going to suggest we talk a little bit about the silly photo I posted on our Instagram story the other day.
SB: Your tone and everything is very teasing right now. Yes. The Instagram I–okay, I am not, we all know I'm not like a fan of Facebook, so I'm never in there when it pops up with Facebook memories, and the few times that I am, I'm like accosted by them. I'm like, “What? Why?” (Both laugh)
CP: “Where? Where”
SB: “What? Who and where?” Yes. So many questions, but yeah, I didn't need to go into Facebook the other day cuz you posted a really nice lil memory. A random one. It was great.
CP: In the spirit of, you know, being our fifth and final season, why don't we lean into these memory moments?
So the one I shared, actually–and I, we'll talk about it a little bit later, but my shop is co-producing a Fat Burlesque show that's kind of an annual thing, and I talked about it on the Matter of Fat Instagram story the other day. And I found a photo of Saraya and I at that show in 2019, the last time we had it IRL. Then while I was in that like, November 2019 section of my phone, I was like, “Oh, look at these other little pics,” and I found one that I don't think we shared. Saraya, it was of you and I when we went to see Lindy West in November of 2019, back when we were doing IRL stuff.
And Lindy West is just incredible and I–she's someone that I just really, I just really love her work. I know you do as well. But what I remember most about that was that I literally had viral bronchitis. (Laughs) I was like, “I'm gonna push through. I'm gonna do it.” And I was thinking, as you saw in the–when I, you know, put some text on that memory. Like, remember before the pandemic, in pre-pan days, we would just go to stuff while we were sick and coughing, and it was like normal?
SB: I actually don't remember that event at all–
CP: –Really?--
SB: Well, to be fair, I saw a bunch of–I saw Lindy a lot when I went to New York as well, so I saw her like two or three or four, four times around that time period. But yeah, it is wild how much we would just, “Oh, I got a, I got a cold. I gotta sneeze. I gotta sniffle. Let me go. It's fine. It won't endanger my loved ones and friends.”
CP: And I was, it was really pushing it. And it was, I think I remember that season for me; I had, was just like so sick all the time, and it was viral. And so like really, I don't think I was that really contagious, but it was no bueno. But Lindy West was great, and you–I forgot that, that you had seen her so many times, but I just, you know, remember when we used to go do stuff like that? I look forward to life where we continue to do those kind of things.
SB: Where that's a reality again.
CP: But remember, remember other like, you know, Matter of Fat in 2019. It feels like, worlds different than where we are right now.
SB: Truly. And also, I think I just have a greater appreciation for when we can be in person together. And actually–okay, so the burlesque picture–or was not a burlesque picture, but the picture of us at the burlesque show–you are wearing a gown from a pre-pan adventure that we went on to L.A.!
CP: What a tie-in! Yes, I was, and good memory on your part.
Yeah, we, that, that fall was packed with stuff. We went to Work It, the podcasting conference in L.A. that year.
SB: Yeah. And that was so much fun. And you found a gown! Of course you did.
CP: Yeah. I went to the Plus Bus in L.A., and I found that lovely black gown, which was from the set of Dumpling. Yeah. I don't know if like anyone from Dumpling actually wore it, but it was part of the lot of clothes they got from that movie after it wrapped. So yeah. Yeah. I loved that dress. That was really cool.
SB: Oh, what a fun–and so I do appreciate that, even though we're so different right now than those memories, you're still doing things like hosting the burlesque show even, and you have been, uh, through the, through the ebbs and flows of a whole pandemic.
CP: Yeah. That's, yeah. Yeah. Oh, I appreciate that.I guess honestly like, kind of leaning into these memories from 2019 and remembering how I had a really fun fall that 2019; like that summer I went on a road trip and then that fall, it just felt like a lot of things for me in my business and projects–I guess projects being Matter of Fat, business being Cake–were really kind of peak. Like things were really, really good and it's still–Saraya, I think I'm still kind of grieving or still like, I don't know.
I'm not over it. Will we ever be, will I ever be over it? I don't know. Often I wish that things were more like that; or things had kind of taken their, the direction that I thought they were gonna go.
Um, yeah, I don't know. That's not where I think we thought–sorry, I, this is not where I thought this, like, let's talk about some fun mems–
SB: –Gettin’ deep and personal–
CP: But that's where my head is really at as we're talking about this.
SB: Well, we're not gonna be inauthentic to the experience that I think everybody else is probably grieving how life dramatically changed. Like whatever locus of control we have over the trajectory of our life, no matter who you are, it got real, real rearranged.
You know what I will never get over? It's not quite the same level as yours. I will never get over the fact that we got to see the llama, the 4H llama costume contest at the state fair.
CP: Oh my gosh. Another banger part of fall 2019.
SB: Was that 2019? Was it? I feel like it was the year before.
CP: Oh, you're right. Maybe it was 2018. (Laughs)
SB: It was in the before times, and Cat and I went to the fair for the first time together, and we saw the llama costume contest. And it's fair time right now too, so.
CP: Yeah, so fair is in the air. And Saraya, you know–well I, I'm not telling you, you all anything you don't know unless you're a newer listener of the pod, but that was my first time ever at the state fair with Saraya. And I'm pretty sure that was 2019.
SB: Really? Minnesota–
CP: ‘Cause we talked, we talked about it in 2018. Like, “Oh my god, Cat, you've never been to the fair?” And then in 2019 we went together.
SB: Yeah. Wow, wow, wow. What a year. We really did, we did a lot to subsist on.
CP: Oh my gosh. And actually, um, for those of you who, uh, this is new information, we did a minisode about our experience at the fair. (Laughs)
SB: So if you want to go back and relive the memories that we're talking slightly about right now, you can go listen to it IRL. Well, no–
CP: –Oh, it will be linked in the show notes on the website. Oh, we also did a minisode about Work It! too, so you could get our inside kind of thoughts and feels about those two things shortly after they happened.
SB: Okay. This is, this is intriguing though; because lately I have, I don't know. I'm a podcast listener, but only certain podcasts at certain times. It's really dependent on my mood, and there's one I listen to–I don't need to name it, it's not that important–but I was like, “Ah. It's just, it's not the same as what it used to be,” obviously for good reasons. But I've started going back and listening to the pre-pandemic episodes, and it's so funny because we just had no concept of how much things would change. Like they were complaining just about the state of life and how hard it had been. It's like, “Oh, you, you precious little baby. Just you wait, just strap in.”
CP: Buckle up.
SB: Buckle up, mhmm. So that might be kind of fun, to go back and listen to ours and just hear about how lovely we thought everything was at the time.
CP: Yeah. Honestly, yeah.
SB: But I do wanna mention that something else that came out of the fair time and how much we enjoyed it was, uh, some memes that–well, I think I introduced you to this one particular meme; that was basically this dude on one of those–I don't–hoverboards? Yeah, it was a hoverboard. And (laughs) it has a sound–
CP: (Hums intro of “Lalala” by Y2K and bbnoCP:) right?
SB: (Singing) When I popped off (trails off) Okay. Anyways, so it was a viral sound at the time.
CP: A real earworm.
SB: Was this pre-Tiktok? Potentially?
CP: I think it's before we were on TikTok, that's for sure. (Laughs)
SB: Yeah. In any case, it shows a dude on a hoverboard on a bridge over a body of water. And it just like, he falls off the side of the bridge into the water.
CP: I think intentionally, he like zooms up and then like, kind of dives in sort of, right? And just right from the hoverboard into the, over the bridge into the water.
SB: And stays rigid as a board the whole way down. Just like top, lean, head over heels. Um, and the meme is a cob of corn at the state fair going into butter. And that is so true. They just dunked that cob of corn into butter. And so like what a nice memory. I wonder if we can find it. I don't know how to even search for that.
CP: I will look for it.
SB: I think it’s on Minnesota memes.
CP: I think it is, too.
So, and you know, I don't know if we did this in 2019, but last year when we did our best at the end of the season, for our like season wrap-up, we shared our favorite meme. And I think that if I were to have shared my favorite memes from 2019, that would've been one for sure.
SB: Oh, absolutely. But well, and I know what yours is now because it does also relate to corn, and it's the young corn man.The corn boy. (Both laugh)
CP: Cone! Taking the world by storm.
SB: Oh my gosh. What's lovely is Cat got to introduce this meme to me!
CP: Wow, which is, that never happens, ever.
SB: We're learning and growing.
CP: Saraya always knows pop culture, everything before me. (Laughs)
SB: I had seen allusions to it, but I hadn't, I hadn't made time to click on it and realize how delightful it actually is.
CP: Kind of similar. My bestie shared it with me and I was like, “Oh, I saw this, I saw that, but I hadn't put this together and I hadn't heard the song yet.” So this–
SB: –Can you tell people what is? Oh, you're already doing that.
CP: Yes, yes. For those of you who somehow do not know, this cute–this sweet little boy was interviewed on Recess Therapy, and he's eating corn on the cob; and it's like about how much he likes corn, and the things he says about it are just so sweet.
You know, “It has like the juice,” like , “The little knob with juice in it.” And then my favorite part is he says something like, “When I had it with butter, everything changed.” (Laughs)
So cute, and people loved it. Um, when he says corn, like he doesn't pronounce the R, so he says “cone.” It's just so cute. So someone then put it to music and then, you know, like the meme train has gone on, right? It's been used for everything. Actually, one of my favorite like iterations of–it is my favorite–one of my favorite German Vietnamese creators did one with a song about how much she loves German bread. (Laughs) So cute!
So it's, you know, this meme and song is moving and growing as all things do on the internet. Um, but then there was an update one with where this cute little boy talks about something about corn. Corn friends, and they do like corn dance and that kind of thing. And Saraya, you suggested to me that we are corn friends.
SB: I think we're corn friends. With how much we've talked about corn.
CP: Yeah, that's true.
SB: And we didn't, we did engage in some corn eating.
CP: Yeah.
SB: Uh, so I think we're corn friends.
CP: I love corn. I love you. Let's be corn friends.
SB: Let's be corn friends. We encourage any listeners to be corn friends with us if you also love corn and you love the podcast.
CP: Yeah. They, they also use the word like corntastic–(Both laugh)
SB: –Oh, and then he says it's a pun! This small child is like, “It’s just a pun!” Oh, so good.
CP: Okay. And I feel like–well, there's one thing I left out of my description that I, I feel like I will regret when I listen to this episode and don't mention. There is this moment when it's probably like an auntie or grandma or someone, you know, who's like with the little boy; in this song, they pan over to her really quick and she's like giggling–
SB: –Yeah, and just staring down at him and just laughing.
CP: It’s so cute!
I also will share that when I talked about this on my social media this week, someone–is their name Sam?--was going back and forth with me and saying that's in their head and they've been singing it all week and their husband's like, “Okay, I'm not annoyed yet.” And that is the vibe with me and Neno. I've been singing the corn song all week and they're like, “Okay.” But then in my little exchange with this person in our DMs, they wished me a corntastic day.
SB: Aww, that's very cute.
CP: So cute! Yeah. So this really is just of the moment.
SB: Why do you think people love it so much?
CP: It's so wholesome and it's so silly and catchy, and I also think that the way this little kid describes corn is probably not ways we would describe corn, but we find it to be absolutely accurate, you know? How, what do think?
SB: I think it's just unadulterated affection for something that can't be divisive (laughs) that like, people are just eager for. Just to show affection and adoration, even, for this. Simple pleasure.
CP: Do you watch those Recess Therapy little videos very often?
SB: On Instagram? Yeah, I've been watching 'em for a long time.
CP: I really like 'em. They, I mean, it's a, it's a lot of the same–I mean, not that everything kids say gets taken into like the meme machine, but it's just a lot of cute kids saying silly, cute stuff and it's just such a delight.
SB: And I think the person who hosts it does a really good job too.
CP: I agree. Yeah. I agree. And just like, kind of gets on that level, you know, with the kids. And I, it just like leaves, asks questions and like presents things in like a silly fun way where they just can share, I don't know, and like really listens to what they have to say and ask follow-up questions in a really, like, kid way. I don't know, in a way that I, I would not be able to do. It's really cute.
SB: I wonder if they are trained or something in therapy for children or something, like I have no idea about the origins of it, but in any case, I'm really veering off. Corn friends: it's fair time. Watch that silly meme. We'll post it. Uh, find your corn friends. And you know, always have a corntastic day.
I don't know. What else did we wanna talk about for Matter of Fat?
CP: Honestly, done and done. With that, Saraya, I think we move into some personal dish for you and me. Corn friends forever. CFF
SB: (Laughs) Corn friends forever. We gotta get like a necklace or a bracelet or something of a cob of corn split in half, (Cat laughs) and then it fits together like BFF bracelets. Enamel? Amazing.
CP: Yeah, I somehow see that in our future.
SB: Ok, ™ ™ ™ ™, nobody steal that idea. That's ours. Yeah, that's our, our major money-making.
CP: I thought it was just gonna be for you and me, but I guess you wanna market this, huh?
SB: Yeah, the ™, trademarked, I trademarked it, so they can’t steal it from us.
CP: Yep. Great job.
SB: We'll, we'll, we'll be the influencers with it. I don't know. I'm not an influencer. Let's get into personal dish. Do you wanna go first or do you want me to go first?
CP: Ooh, I want you to go first. You got some new stuff happening.
SB: Well, last time I talked about how it's real weird to find a new house to live in, a new place to live, and I found a place!
CP: Ayy!
SB: I am so excited. It was–I think last time I talked about how I have this like HGTV ideology.
CP: Dreams. (Both laugh)
SB: Dreams, yeah, I was like, “Oh, I could have anything and it'll all be perfect.” And it didn't and it wasn't, but it did. The last two options for me came down to one–well, it ended up being the last two options ‘cause I was tired of choosing and I just wanted to get it done.
And after seeing so many places that were just like hot ticket items and also not that great, I was just like, what is, what is the future of living? What is the future of housing? It is bleak. We already know this. This is not news. My anecdotal evidence doesn't really feed into that very well.
But in any case, there are two choices. The first choice: in the city, not super far from where I live now, but a different neighborhood. Close to parks. Beautiful, brand new, and also historic. It was part of this historic mansion, and then it was added onto on the back end with brand new apartments, but the mansion was very fancy. It had a billiards room and a study and like fireplaces and it was gorgeous. And I was like, “Oh, this is nice. This is really nice.” And it was very exorbitant for less space than I have right now. But it's kind of like, okay, well do I wanna have this like, really beautiful lifestyle for a year and like really do it up?
Or, the other place I found: totally different neighborhood, closer to St. Paul, not in St. Paul.
CP: Love it.
SB: Trees everywhere, accessible to the river, and in a little triplex situation.
CP: With a little yard space too.
SB: Yes, a backyard and just lots of windows and more space. Still too expensive for my liking, but.
CP: That’s sort of the, I don't know. That's the game though.
Well, I remember at the beginning of this whole process Saraya, one of the things that it sounded like was like one of the, the real important variables for you was just more space. ‘Cuz now you have a dog in your life that like, is running around and needs some, you know, needs room.
SB: I need doors to close between us.
CP: Oh yeah, that too. (Laughs)
SB: Also, he has been like, so reckless lately and pushing boundaries and being a real teenager. Currently he's cuddled up with a little dog plushy in between his legs while he is napping. It's very cute.
CP: Sweet boy.
SB: He's conked out. But yeah, it'd be nice to have some doors. My own office will be really fun. So in any case, I'm just excited and that's happening. I have pretty much everything figured out, but we'll see how it goes.
I don't know. Moving is, it’s a process. It's frustrating and nerve-wracking, and also this is the best I've ever felt about it, so.
CP: Oh, okay. Well–
SB: –That’s on age. That's on more money to help with moving.
CP: That’s on movers.
SB: Yeah. That's on movers. (Laughs) Nothing about me. Um, but yeah, so that's an update I'm quite excited about.
CP: Oh, I'm so excited for you. I hope the move process is, you know, it's never pain-free, but I hope it's as like easy as possible. I'm already inviting myself over. I cannot wait to hang out at your new place with you and Bogie. That'd be great.
SB: Absolutely, absolutely. You, Bogie, Neno, Narwhal? Is Narwhal gonna come?
CP: Maybe?
SB: Have we talked about Narwhal at all? Probably not. Introduction.
CP: Hello everyone. Uh, Narwhal is my stepcat. Um, as you know, my cat passed away earlier this year, so it was really nice to kind of latch onto another pet in my life, which is my boyfriend Neno’s cat named Narwhal who we’re still–it's, it's a process. Like, I think right after Vivi died, actually, Narwhal was really sweet to me and I felt like he could like pick up on like my, like dead cat owner energy. But then, you know, we kind of, I don't know, things have kind of gone back and forth, but lately, like the last couple weeks, we really are in the, we're having a little moment.
He comes in a lot of mornings and lays on me and wants pets and stuff, and that's my favorite thing. I'm trying to like–so my, one of my favorite things about my cat Vivi was that she would lay right by my head and shoulders and honestly operate kind of like a pillow. Um, and I just want Narwhal to cuddle around my head so bad and that cat will not do it
So at like, that is, I'm like, like I'm giving him treats like by my ear, you know, I'm like really trying. So maybe someday I'll report that that's happened. But until then, yeah. It's my little stepcat and yeah. He's cute and way more adventurous. Like, Vivi never like played, ever. Like literally like I got a laser out and she's like, “What the fuck is that?” Like, did not care.
SB: “You expect me to move? I'm sorry. Do you know who I am?”
CP: “We are lounging and eating only.” (Both laugh) Whereas Narwhal is full of energy, which is kind of fun. Which–and more adventurous, which makes me think it's not out of the question that we could bring him to your house at some point.
SB: I don't know about that.
CP: I don’t anticipate it, but it’s not a hard no.
SB: You know what’s interesting? The way you've just described the cats is very representative of you and Neno, I feel like, to some extent. Not that you're not adventurous, you are adventurous. But you, I think, you know, they talk about pets having different attributes of their owners, and there's a little bit of that going on with that.
CP: Oh my gosh. Are you thinking about my recent getaway? Is that what's informing this assessment?
SB: No, but I think that's accurate. Oh, also, do you wanna talk about that? You should definitely talk about that.
CP: I thought that was a segue. You have more things about you, but I think we should talk about this just ‘cause you didn't–you, you created a great segue and you didn't even know it.
SB: No, I think that's just telling about how you are.
CP: Because I think you're really accurate. Vivi and I, like, she took after her mom. She loved to just relax, chill out, cuddle, be cozy, be in soft, warm places, eat good food, do things on her own time, not work too hard, you know? (Both laugh)
Whereas Narwhal is like, “Are we playing? Hi, you're home. What are we doing? We're doing a thing? Hey, wake up. Good morning. Let's do this, let's do that,” you know. Which I wouldn't say Neno is exactly like that. But recently we went on our first couples getaway to one of those little getaway houses. Those little, they probably–I don't know about you, but they advertise to me incessantly on Instagram.
They're those like, kind of tiny house cabins with like, big windows and a big lovely bed. And yeah, we went away for a couple nights. It was really lovely. I actually, there's some like, fat considerations, ‘cause it is like a very small place and I was curious like how Neno and I would fit. We fit fine, with a couple thoughtful–not exceptions, but like things to be thoughtful about, like the bathroom and stuff. I made a post about on Instagram, if you're interested.
But anyway, I'm bringing this back because it was our first time getting away together, and I had booked this thing being like, “Great, two full days of just lounging, looking out at the trees in the air conditioned thing, sitting maybe by the fire and eating lots of food and just chilling out,” right?
And so we're, we're on the way there, we're driving and Neno’s like, “Okay, so like, what are we gonna do every day? Like, where are we gonna go? Like, there's this like state park over here, there's a hike here, there's this here, there's that here.” And I was like, “Excuse me, I just wanna do nothing.” And so I learned more about our travel, um, like expectations and like what we like to do when we're, when we go away. They really like to keep busy, and I don't. Like, to me, that's more of like travel versus like a restful vacation. So I can be into it, but like when I wanna–I just wanna rest, you know? So the cat thing actually really is a perfect, a perfect tie-in there, Saraya.
SB: Well, I've been paying attention, so I'm glad to report back that I am your corn friend and I do know what I'm talking about (Both laugh)
CP: CFF, corn friend forever.
SB: CFF! Oh, I love it. Oh, that's so good.
CP: Okay. But I can go on and on about my dish later. Can we go back to you, ‘cuz you have other stuff happening?
SB: Yeah, I do. And also, I kind of only wanna talk about one more thing, which is: I got an MRI recently. I've had 'em before, so it's like whatever. But I think that's an update. It went well, I'll just say that much.
Like, I appreciated the technicians and the way that they were very patient and helped explain things and, you know, humored my questions, and I shouldn't say humored because like, somebody who's a healthcare worker should be able to answer your questions kindly.
And also, I don't know, the world doesn't work that way all the time, so it was a good experience. But I think I kind of want to talk about it in the, in the fat dish.
CP: Ooh, we'll keep it–yes, let's do that. That sounds good. Actually, you know, I have a little doctor stuff too that might feel a little more fat-specific conversation that I might save till then too, if that's okay.
SB: Okay. Did you have anything else you wanted to talk about personal, or should we get into media dish? What do you think?
CP: Hmm, can I give a few little short little updaties?
SB: Yes.
CP: I got my hair cut and colored, but like on separate occasions since we last spoke on a fat dish, and I wanted to shout out both the places I went.
So I got a color, um, for the first time at this place called Hello Hair Collective in St. Paul. Very cute. And they are one of the first, or maybe only salons I've seen that's like pretty explicit about inclusive language and like body positive language in their marketing, which I'm into. I will also mention that the chairs, like the one you sit in to get your hair cut, were just fine; but the chairs that like you lean back in to get your hair washed in were the most comfortable I've ever leaned back in at a salon ever. Like, they were just so sturdy, so comfortable. Usually when I'm like leaning back to get my hair washed, my body's a little tense, like I'm still kind of like holding myself together, holding my head up. Like I feel like I can't relax really, for fear that like I just like, fit or I'll flop over, or, you know, like, things just like won't be how they're supposed to be.
But I felt so relaxed in those chairs getting my hair washed, so it was so relaxed that I commented on it there and I'm still thinking about it. It was really nice. So I wanted to mention that place. I saw Alexa for the color and then a stylist, Jamie, styled my hair after.
But you know I've been really into the shag haircuts lately, and I got a trim from my regular hair girl, Abby Arthur; and I dunno if I've talked about her at all on the pod, but I want to, ‘cause she's awesome. She's fat and just an incredible hairstylist. She's at the Cocoon in, Cocoon Salon in St. Paul. Look at me, just adopting the St. Paul way of life. I love it. All signs point to St. Paul, my friends.
Abby is so great and I would just like wholeheartedly recommend her, and actually, it was–so Abby has shopped at Cake for years, but my friend Deeva Rose–also like friend of the pod and collaborator we’ll mention a little bit later in terms of a work thing–
SB: –And previous guest!
CP: And previous guest, yes. Not only friend of the pod, previous guest on the pod. She has for a long time gotten her hair done from Abby as well, and I–that was maybe one of my influences. Abby also had like a really cool shaved head for a long time and I was like, “That is a fucking look.” Oh my God. Abby has great style.
So anyway, Hello Hair Collective and Abby at Cocoon St. Paul. Both, I–may I link both of them in the show notes in the website., Saraya? Does that feel okay?
SB: (Laughs) You don't have to ask permission from me. Yeah, that's fine. We talked about it. So cool. She'll let the people know.
CP: Wonderful.
SB: Well, I have a question on what I can link. Well what you can link, ‘cause you're the one who updates the website.
CP: Corn friends–
SB: –(Laughs) No, not Corn Friends.
Nomination–or not nomination–application form for New Leaders Council.
CP: Yes, yes yes!
SB: That will be closing on September 12th, and if you’ve been paying attention or you have been paying attention and you just hear us say these things all the time: NLC, New Leaders Council, it's a leadership institute that both Cat and I went through different years; different, like, cities. Well technically years was state chapter, but it is really wonderful. I am turning off of the board. I had my last board meeting this week–
CP: –Two years later! You’ve been doing that!
SB: Yeah, and it's such a–oh, it's such a good chapter, the Twin Cities chapter. There are chapters other places too, and so if you are interested in finding progressive friends who are doing really cool things, you know, getting into the tough things in life with other people who are interested in doing good work, I would suggest checking out and seeing if there is a chapter that's local to you. And if you'd like to apply, the deadline is September 12th.
CP: Ooh, I'm so glad you remember that. I co-sign. I would wholeheartedly recommend involvement with NLC; and specifically, you know, applying for the institute because that is just, that six month fellowship program is really, it can be really transformational for folks and it's very, very cool.
And I'm excited ‘cuz I actually applied to be one of the lead facilitators. As part of the institute, the first weekend is–well actually, what’s cool is that it's one weekend a month–but all the chapters around the country are doing the same thing each of those weekends. So like, you're part of your chapter, but you're doing similar things as all the chapters around the country.
The first weekend really dives into like, personal reflection and exploration in terms of like, what do you care about? What are your goals? How does that tie into your community and the people around you? Um, and I got accepted to be a national trainer for that part of institute, and I'm quite excited.
So in January–I'll find out in a few months where I'm going–but in January at least one of the weekends I'll be probably flying, maybe driving off to a different city to help facilitate that, which I'm just so excited about. We had our first like, train-the-trainer training a couple of Saturdays ago and it was just really well done. And you know, my little like training and development Master's degree perspectives: I don't think all trainings are very well done, so to be like, “Wow, this virtual training nailed it,” is kind of high praise. It was a really good experience and so I'm really looking forward to that.
SB: That'll be fun. We'll never know on the podcast how it went, but I can't wait to hear about it.
CP: Oh, Saraya, you'll get all the details. Yeah, I guess podcast. Oh, that's like a little teaser, like “It's gonna happen. You'll never know.” Who are we kidding? I'll talk about it nonstop on my frickin Instagram.
SB: I was gonna say, just go on Instagram. (Cat laughs) That's fine.
CP: One final update in terms of personal stuff: I just need to share that like fall fashion is on my mind. I feel a little bit like, I don't–this is maybe a silly feeling to describe, but I'm on a little bit of a high. Last night I stayed late at work and I recorded a style video. We have–so Cake, my shop Cake, we now have a Patreon that folks can join, and at different levels you get access to different things. And one of those things is a monthly style tips, usually video, oftentimes hosted by me. So I did a style tips video last night that'll come out later this week related to like transitioning summer to fall; honing in on like a very specific part of layering that I find to be really, like, easy and fun to do.
Anyway, I'm just like, I brought my own clothes from home as examples and wouldn't you know it, I created a bunch of outfits that I'd never worn before, and now I'm really excited for fall! (Both laugh)
SB: Trying 'em out.
CP: I'm like, “Oh, I wanna wear this and that and this.” So yeah, I'm just in the fall style mood right now and I know we have a few more weeks probably to go before it's chilly enough to really lean into fall fashion, but I'm ready.
SB: Yeah. And also grateful for it being summer still. I do not want the winter to be here, but I also love fall so much.
CP: I know.
SB: I love, I love it.
CP: I know. Okay. Thank you for indulging me in like an extra lot of personal dish. I think it's time to move into media dish?
SB: Yeah, I'm gonna be real quick with it, ‘cause I wanna get into the fat dish.
CP: Cool.
SB: So I have three things. Well, no, four things-ish. So first thing: I know I talk about What We Do in the Shadows a lot. It's very funny to me. Great fat representation. I know Taika Waititi has not been good with fat stuff, but he's just a producer, like, founder of the concept–I'm not using the right language.
In any case, there was a Frasier reference, so Cat, please just watch it. There's a Frasier reference if you need to know anything else about how great the comedic writing is, they built Frasier into it, so I know you'll enjoy it.
CP: I love that. Saraya. Can I, would you indulge me in a short aside that also involves a Fraiser reference?
SB: Very short, very short.
CP: In the aforementioned style video that I recorded last night, there was a Frasier reference. It was in the form of that t-shirt that you gave me for my birthday several years ago. In the video I was like, I didn't say this is Frasier–I mean it's Niles, from Frasier–I said, “If you know who this is, mention it in the comments.” So I'm really interested if anyone knows. Okay, cool. Back to–
SB: –Really trying to get those engagement numbers up there. That's great. I
CP: I'm curious who might know. I don't wanna spoil it, you know? Okay. Back to your media dish. Thank you for the aside.
SB: Well, that's the end of the Frasier content, so I think that was the perfect way to end it.
So yes, still enjoying What We Do in the Shadows, loving Reservation Dogs–like loving, loving, which actually is another Taika production to some extent. So yeah, he's all over the place. He's really doing the most, but I love it so much. And also I love Jana Schmieding in it.
CP: Oh, I didn't know she's in it!
SB: Yeah, she's in it.
CP: Cool.
SB: Yep. And so we also know her and talked about her in–was it only in our, what was it? The podlucks, right?
CP: Oh yeah. Jana–so Jana, in addition to being on TV and writing for TV, a podcast called Woman of Size.
SB: So we listened to one of those last year. But any case, she is in Reservation Dogs. She's also in Rutherford Falls and I tried to get into season two of it, and I have not been loving it. So that's that.
CP: I haven't started yet, but I look forward to it. Although I'm now, I'm like, oh. But I will–I'm kind of more easily delighted, I think, than you are, so I'll probably be cool with it.
SB: I don't know. And maybe it's just like, I'm not in the mood for that type of writing right now, or, I don't know. But I'm also like, not as invested in Only Murders in the Building, so.
CP: Yeah. You mentioned that. I haven't finished the season yet, but I'm, it’s different a little bit, but I like it. You're not as into it, yeah.
SB: No, I don't know, but it took me a while to get into it in the first place, so.
CP: Got it.
SB: Whatever. That's where I'm at. I'm also like, continuing to read a lot of books, so that's fun. Nothing of note that I would talk about on here, but that's where I'm at with media.
Well, actually, Megan Thee Stallion’s new album came out.
CP: I didn't know that.
SB: We, we talked about Beyonce last time. I did not listen to the leak.
CP: Good.
SB: But I did listen to it when it came out, so it's been a, a lot of good music lately, so. What about you? (Cat laughs nervously) I redact my question.
CP: I have two media updates. One is just that I'm continuing to watch Big Brother throughout the whole season–or excuse me, throughout the whole summer–which is the, you know, the season. It ends I think at the end of September. And I would just like to say that this past week was so good. I won't go into details, but anyone else who watches is gonna be like, “Yeah Cat, this past week was so good.” It was so good.
And then the other thing I will share, I've been really into FBI International, so on Paramount+--it must have been like a CBS thing originally–there was a show called FBI, which I was kind of like eh about. You know me and my cop shows. Um, and I finished that. But then there has like, there was one spinoff show called FBI International–a couple spinoff shows–but this one only had one season, FBI International, and now I just had it on to have something on, and now I'm pretty invested in it and it's like only the one season, you know?
And do you know that feeling of when you're like, “Oh, I like this so much, but I'm nearing the end of the season. What will I watch next,” kind of thing? In terms of filling this like, bullshit cop FBI kind of void in my life.
Um, yes. I'm sad that this–it was like probably out years ago, but I'm just first watching it now–but yeah, FBI International is really doing it for me lately.
SB: I just am so curious about what the demographic was when they pitched these shows, like, to execs, and like how you fit into that. Because you are really squarely the consumer for this.
And were there any other identities that they mentioned that actually match with you? I do not know. So curious.
CP: I do not know. I wonder if I'm an outlier or if I'm like the secret, like target market, you know? I don't know. I will–what was–I was gonna mention that these, the FBI and the corresponding series at branch off of it are Dick Wolf joints. (Saraya snorts) Like he produces so many cop shows.
SB: Yeah.
CP: Yeah.
SB: Yeah. There's a great, in L.A., there's Faye Orlove is an artist and she created this space called Junior High, and I've just like followed it for a long time. But for a while she was like doing a bunch of sticker packs and stuff like that, and I think she said like, “Produced by Dick Wolf,” or like, something about Dick Wolf, like really running with the Law & Order man’s name in a way that I don't know if that was legal, honestly.
CP: I've seen like pins and stuff.
SB: So that’s why I laughed. I think she was one of the first adopters of that.
CP: Cute. That's cute.
SB: So that's why I laughed. ‘Cause I was just thinking about like, “I wonder if somebody, you know, just walking around with a pin.”
CP: Well, honestly, in addition to our corn friends bff jewelry, I might need to find a Dick Wolf pin to tell the world. No, I take it back.
SB: CCF. Chief Corn Friends Forever. No.
CP: No.
SB: CFF. It just feels like it should be a C-suite thing if you say CFF.
CP: Like CFO? CFF. No, we’re like–
SB: Chief Financial Friend as well as Corn Friends Forever.
CP: No.
SB: Okay. Don’t “No” my fake pin idea!
CP: I like your ideas. I've been trying to not use Chief in like those kind of roles, you know?
SB: Oh, yeah. Also, we're not doing this. (Both laugh)
CP: That wasn't a real idea? I’m sorry, I thought the CFF bestie corn cob–
SB: –Oh, we could make that. I don't think I'm ready to like, go into business. (Cat laughs) Maybe once the podcast is over, that'll be my enterprise.
CP: Wow. Our next project.
SB: Yeah. This project is pins, exclusively corn-related pins. Keeping those Midwest sensibilities strong.
CP: Let's move. Let's move with some more fat-specific dish, and specifically, we wanna know more about your MRI.
SB: Okay, so I had an MRI. I think I'm fine, we'll find out, it's whatever. I'm not worried about it. In any case, I–that sounds like so nonchalant and that honestly, I do feel nonchalant about it, but the last time I had an MRI was in 2016. It'd been a long time and I don't particularly love it, but it was time to just check it out. And I will say I went to the Allina clinic or imaging center in Edina, and they were so great. The technicians, so great. They talked me through all my questions. They even–I was like, I have a nose ring and I can't take it out, and I totally forgot about it. So, not me at home taking magnets off my fridge and trying to test if my nose was reactive to it or not.
CP: Oh my God.
SB: But we went, I went in, the technician was so helpful. So nice. I didn't have to wear a robe because I thought I had, and I just wore non-metal or magnetic clothing items, which is honestly easier than ever with how prolific leggings and bralettes are. Honestly the pandemic setting us up to wear more comfortable clothes, I think just makes everything so much easier. So that was a plus.
CP: Saraya, is MRI the kind where like you're in the tube, that's like, your whole body?
SB: Yeah. Magnetic resonance imaging. And so it's basically like this big huge piece of equipment in a tiny tiny tube that you get pushed into. And it was imaging my head. So then you have this like cage thing around your head as well, and it's, it was like 45 minutes for me of being in this tiny, tiny tube. I think that's what I wanted to talk about in regards to anti-fat support.
Now here's the thing. I did do some research. So there are traditional bore–so like, the bore being like the hole–so there are traditional-bore MRI machines and then open bore, which are like bigger. And it's, and so for, you know, people like me who are fat and like, semi-claustrophobic, the traditional bore one was not great. I also had to have an IV for some imaging dye that they inserted, and so I, it was really tight and I was like, I was fine. And also cuz I wanted to get it over with; also, like if I was more claustrophobic and couldn't deal with it and didn't have coping skills, that would've been really, really uncomfortable.
Now the technicians were really helpful. They like had me tested out a little bit beforehand. They were really good about checking in. But I think for anybody else, that would be really hard. Like my, my right arm actually went numb after a while because it was just such a tight fit. Um, so you know, that and listening to Evanescence, cuz I picked the 2000s pop hits.
CP: Oh, they let you pick a playlist?
SB: Yeah. Sirius XM babies, so you can pick whatever you want, and I guess they were jamming out to it as well, which makes me feel better. It was like Eminem, Evanescence; just a random mix of 2000s hits, so that did help me feel a little more upbeat and excited about it.
But I just, I'm so curious as to when people are getting imaging, like healthcare providers, clinics–I guess the one that I use does allow for a more accurate read, ‘cuz it's using magnets and so to have them closer together allows for more detail on the images. There are a lot of people who would be uncomfortable in that tiny space, whether because of their body size–I think about someone who's really tall, or somebody who is claustrophobic or who has other concerns.
Like, it's rough. It's really rough. And so I just want anybody who has to do imaging like that know that I am there with you in solidarity, and I just hope you get technicians who are really, really wonderful and help talk you through and check in on you like I did. So, good experience overall; the actual software–not software, the actual tools, machines that they use, not so great for people my size. So, that's that.
CP: Well, thanks for sharing that.
SB: What did you want to talk about?
CP: I just had some weird doctor stuff happen. I'm so spoiled with my primary care physician, so like when I have to go to urgent care, I'm like kind of, pressure's on. Or not pressure's on, but like I, I'm like, “Who, what will I,” it's so unknown. Like, what will I expect, you know? Right. And it was my first time going to urgent care with Neno and I'm really like–it's very clear like, okay, we got two fat people here in this room, you know what I mean?
Like, how are you gonna treat us? One who's nonbinary, how are you gonna address us? You know, like that kind of thing. I had to go to urgent care, and then I had to go to emergency because I needed imaging. Not an MRI, but not–like an ultrasound. And they couldn't do that at the urgent care I was at.
But like, it was so interesting ‘cuz like, the urgent care experience that I had was incredible. It was an Allina hospital and it was really, really good. Both the nurse and the doctor I saw were incredible. They like listened to me. There was not any kind of fat–not even a whisper of weird fat stuff. It was incredible. And then I go to emergency and it's like, not terrible, but like lots of whispers. No outright like, “Well, you're fat, so I need to ask you about this, this, and that.” But like some things where it's just like, “Why are you saying that? Oh, I know why.”
And my tactic is always just to like, kind of play down, like, “Oh, well I've talked to my primary about that.” Like, “I don't know, I don't know what you could mean,” you know, like those sort of things. “Why would you say that?” And like, “Oh, is that something we need to address now or can I just follow up with my primary care physician? You can just make a note of that.” You know, like those kind of things.
And it's just–I won't go into detail about all of it, but one thing that did strike me is: as a fat person, it's so hard for me to know, like if I really have things that make it seem like I might have diabetes or if it is just, like, that that's the things people say because I'm fat. You know, like test-wise, no, I'm not pre-diabetic; but you wouldn't know it from the way I'm treated by every single person. It feels very like gaslighty and very like, I don't know.
‘Cuz I wanna be thoughtful about my health. Like if you have diabetes, like there's nothing wrong with it. If I have diabetes, like I'll deal with it. It's, it's fine. But this idea of like–how do I explain it? Like I don't know if it's something I need to take seriously or if it's something that I am, just need to prepare myself to be like, “Oh yeah, I'm gonna get a question about maybe I have diabetes,” you know.
Like when, with my primary care provider, like we've done numbers and I don't at this point in my life, you know. It's just, I don't know, I'm not saying anything that's new or noteworthy for fat folks, and I for the most part have had pretty decent care at most doctor visits actually, but there's always the–it's, it's less overt and much more subtle, the kind of fatphobic vibes I'm feeling when I'm in situations like that.
SB: Well, and okay, one more thing to add to that. It's like, yes. I feel like I had good care. You've had pretty decent care, but also we truly don't understand what it would be like to receive care if we weren't fat. And so like, what is the bar? (Laughs) Like we don't know. We have no idea what to expect!
CP: That is such a good point. And like that was something too. Like I mentioned, I went to urgent care and then to emergency. If it had been the other way around, I bet I would've felt different about my care in emergency, ‘cuz it was just fine, you know?
It wasn't great, but it was fine. But because I had such stellar care at urgent care, I was on that level, kind of expecting that level of care at emergency. And it was like okay, it's fine, but–and so it's not the same as what you shared, but the idea of like, what is our, what's our norm, you know? How are people being treated in ways that we could never even fathom because we've always been fat at the doctor?
SB: Right, right.
CP: Yeah. (Sighs) Okay. Last fat dish thing that we have alluded to is that my shop, Cake Plus Size Resale, co-produces a fat burlesque show with the Rose Academy of Burlesque, Deeva Rose's burlesque school.
The last IRL one was in 2019 with that photo that we talked about in the Matter of Fat, um, dish at the top. Um, but the, what was once just a show is now two shows that were co-producing, plus several other fat shows all happening in the Twin Cities. Uh, a Fat Burlesque weekend, September 8th through 10th.
I would–I'll be there irl. There's also a virtual option for our shows, so I'm gonna link that in the show notes on our website, and I would just love love love to see some of y'all there IRL or virtually, ‘cuz there's options for both!
SB: That’s so fun! I am so glad it's happening and like options for it too.
CP: Yeah, that feels really cool, right?
SB: Yeah. I mean, yes, say what we will about the pandemic, but it has created ways for people to engage that are different than what wass available before, so I love that and I hope lots and lots of people attend whatever way they need to.
CP: Yeah. And with that, my friend, I think we've come to the end.
SB: My corn friend.
CP: CFF forever. (Both laugh)
SB: Corn friends forever forever?
[TRANSITION MUSIC FADES IN, FADES OUT]
CP: And you, dear listeners, can also be our corn friends? (Laughs)
SB: Yes. Let us, drop a comment in our next Instagram post if you're a corn friend.
Yeah. Visit our website at www.matteroffatpod.com to find show notes, transcripts, info about Matter of Fat, access to older episodes, and links to our Fat Cash via Venmo.
CP: Yeah! Check out our website. We also love it if you could send us some love in the form of Fat Cash here in our fifth and final season.
SB: And then we could be shouting you out here on our next episode.
CP: Yep. Right here in the outro. Similarly, if you leave us a review on Apple Podcasts, we would love to do that. And if you tag us on your Instagram stories, we will share, share, share that as well.
We appreciate you all, and hope that you will subscribe, rate, and review our podcast wherever you listen.
SB: Yeah. Until next time when we're back with another episode of–
Both: –Matter of Fat.
[TRANSITION MUSIC FADES IN, FADES OUT]
SB: Yeah, and he–oh God. Oh no.
CP: What?
SB: He's got a squeaky toy. He's stepped away–
-END-